eta Okay, I've sent out some PMs to encourage more activity. I'm considering shortening the deadlines to prevent this sort of lull in the future.
I think a shorter day would be really helpful. Others may be like me, waiting around for someone to say stuff that can be analyzed. I don't really know the right questions to ask, so am kinda counting on more experienced players.
IJve read up to post #1195 so I have a few things to say but havenJt caughten up... but while I am here I will say that I think the focus on lyrical specifically is bizarre. There was an entire wagon on a flipped townie and she's being called out for 'peripheral scum playL. Wtf is that? Why not focus on classic scumtells forst. Like, I don't knowL lynching a member of the town?
IJve read up to post #1195 so I have a few things to say but havenJt caughten up... but while I am here I will say that I think the focus on lyrical specifically is bizarre. There was an entire wagon on a flipped townie and she's being called out for 'peripheral scum playL. Wtf is that? Why not focus on classic scumtells forst. Like, I don't knowL lynching a member of the town?
Ayep.
I'm off to work soon .. but plan to comb through day one either after work or in the morning to see what presents itself in the hindsight light of Jerome's lynch and the nightkill of Crumb.
IJve read up to post #1195 so I have a few things to say but havenJt caughten up... but while I am here I will say that I think the focus on lyrical specifically is bizarre. There was an entire wagon on a flipped townie and she's being called out for 'peripheral scum playL. Wtf is that? Why not focus on classic scumtells forst. Like, I don't knowL lynching a member of the town?
A fine idea. Do you have any suspicions who of the 12 people voting for Jerome might be scum? And don't you agree that, until we find out, it might be better to go after other scumsigns?
By the way, Gonzo, what's with all the whiteknighting? Yesterday it Jerome, now it's lyrical. As far as I know, the idea is to put pressure on people and get some answers and, possibly, contradictions or other scumsigns out of them. Your putting up a defence for others quite defeats the purpose there.
Vote Gonzo for now. I don't like what's happening there.
All right, so to get some talking happening I present:
My Thoughts on Kael or Why I'm Voting For Him
These are all of Kael's posts in this game. Some 25 yesterday and three today.
So he gets off to a typical innocuous start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Y'know, we probably should have come up with a code phrase or secret handshake before we all disguised ourselves as nondescript townsfolk, so we would know who's who.
Some mystery-solving genius you are, Ms. Drew.
A self-depreciating shifty eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenscape
If someone is known to be quiet and skate...
This was to Adam saying that flail can lead to inconsistencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
flail doesn't always equate to inconsistencies, though, and I think the inconsistencies would be the actual damning evidence, not the flail itself.
A nice little comment on the bey PM shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
bey is just being bey. I don't think he's half as convinced as he claims to be about the supposed benefits of not reading his PM on day 1. However, the idea that he doesn't, or doesn't want to, really seems to irk a lot of people, so he's going to continue to push it.
And here we have the first vote for the day. And it's not much of a vote, pretty much a "hopping on the bandwagon" type of vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Adding pressure just to find flail is a scummy thing to do.
I don't think so. The idea is pressure --> flail --> inconsistencies. Putting pressure on someone is an ok reason to vote for them, esp on day 1 when there's not much else to do. 'Course like I said before, I don't believe flailing is a lynchable offense in and of itself. It's the slip-ups you're looking for, and they're more likely when someone's back is to the wall.
Speaking of which, I'm going to Vote: JEROME, in the vain hope that putting his back against the wall will spark some reading comprehension.
And attention away from this game onto Scotland Yard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumb
Quote:
We should play Scotland Yard again sometime!
Oh sure, if anyone else is interested.
This is relevant to my interests. Someone less lazy than I should start sign-up thread.
This obviously is where Gonzo has voted for him and Kael is curious as to why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
vote Kael until he posts some more things and stuff
Out of curiosity, why single me out of the low-post-count crowd? More than half the players currently have 10 or fewer posts, 7 players have fewer posts than I, 4 players have 3 or fewer, and one player has only 1. Is that the 10-gallon hat you picked my name out of, or are you just happy to see me?
Here we have Kael attacking Jerome for questioning Teasasue for repeating the WoT she put up earlier. And for that, that was confirmation for Kael that Jerome was scummy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
FOS on that Teasasue , you only cluttered the thread.
Would you care to present your ideas without quoting pages of text.
Whatever, JEROME. You got what you asked for. If you were willing to read the thread in the first place, you wouldn't have had to ask teas to repeat herself.
I'm going to keep my vote on you, I think.
Here he is defending himself when questioned on his previous post. You can all read this and make your own minds up but this reads as forced and stilted. Followed by a throwaway "I don't care if I look suspicious!" and a reiteration that he's voting for Jerome for his behaviour.
Not long before that Crumb had voted for Kael for intercepting the Teas question. Crumb had also FOSed me in the same post but...he voted for Kael.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
I don't feel like I 'intercepted' the question. I responded because I laughed when teasasue answered it by quoting herself, and laughed even harder when JEROME complained about it.
Did no one else actually read the posts? Yes, there's a gigantic and mostly unnecessary quote in it. I found it annoying myself. She did actually write something in there, though, it wasn't just a quote. Sorry for being amused that JEROME couldn't be arsed to read it the first time, or when it was re-posted at his request.
In summation, I don't care if he or anyone else finds either teasasue's giant quote suspicious, nor do I care if they find my mocking response to his complaints suspicious. I will keep my vote on JEROME because of his behavior, not because I don't like him.
A tidy little post ostensibly questioning Gonzo's motivations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Y'know, Gonzo, you're getting awfully worked up in JEROME's defense, certainly more than I was when I mocked him about teasasue's repost.
And here he is OMGUSing Jerome for a perceived OMGUS on mickthinks. Which reminds me to look at mick's posts next. But yup, it's another intercept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Mick, you have 8 posts in this thread.
1. Vote for Gonzo
2. Weak argument for your Gonzo vote with a jumping on the Jerome thing because I am "unproductive"
3. Banter post to Gonzo
4. To Bey, arguing that Scum should be lynched, not unproductive players
5. Following Slim's attack on me.
6. Spurious logic that I don't read the thread.
7. Duplicate post #6
8. Arguing again that I don't read the thread.
Now Mick, what exactly have you given that has been productive?
This is definitely an OMGUS. Doesn't seem likely, with only 4 out of 12 necessary votes on him, but maybe he's starting to crack a little. Seriously, if I was leaning town on JEROME I wouldn't be voting for him, regardless of how useless he is. I vote because of behavior, not because of dislike for the player.
IOW, "C'mon guys! Can't you see Jerome's scummy behaviour? He's OMGUSing mickthinks!!" No, I didn't see it then and I don't see it now. Jerome's post was reasonable given mick's vote was on him almost from the get go and mick had done little else since. Who else had done little else since? Oh yes, Kael.
So the next post he's attacking Gonzo yet again. Why? Because he called bullshit on Kael's previous post. By this time Jerome had posted his list. No comment from Kael wrt that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Leaping to his defense yet again, Gonzo? Then again, let him continue to speak for himself and I'm sure we'll have a scum hung by Monday, so I guess you'd better do something, huh.
So here he is backing slim as slim attacks Gonzo. He also claims that his reasons have changed, he just hasn't bothered posting why. That's fair enough, he doesn't post much as it is. But this is where it all starts to get really interesting. This I think is where the first cracks appear. Jerome wasn't looking that good for a lynch, slim had an equally viable wagon happening and Kael's appeal to everyone who is leaning town on Jerome to vote for him hadn't really taken off. Is this where you felt the lynch escaping you Kael?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Of course it doesn't apply, slim. According to Gonzo there is still NO GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER to vote for JEROME, and anyone still voting for him is scum, or something.
His verdict on my posts markedly ignores all the things JEROME did in between my initial vote and this point in the thread, assuming that my reason then, to apply pressure, is still my reason now simply because I have not explicitly mentioned a change in reasons.
Honestly, if it was still just to apply pressure, or just because of the 'I was being sarcastic!' lie, I wouldn't be voting for JEROME anymore. Because I would be voting for Gonzo. However, JEROME obligingly continues to flail, so I'm happy to sit where I am and simply watch Gonzo dig himself deeper right along side our dear gnome.
So here's Kael's understanding of the list. The list is one of the reasons why he's voting for Jerome, as he says later. I think we can all agree that the list was incomplete as far as relevant quotes go but it really looks like Kael is seizing upon it to back up his early scum vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Monkey
I still don't understand why you see a list as scummy. Sorry I don't get it, but can you try explaining it again?
A list like that, all players listed with things like 'leaning town', 'likely town', 'leaning scum', etc. is a great way to look like you're doing something without actually doing something. Especially because a list like the one JEROME put up provides no explanation for why he would be leaning town/scum on a given individual. No quotes, no references, no reasoning. This doesn't mean all lists ever are scummy, of course. But, a full roster with no background or explanation is really easy to write up and basically completely worthless.
That's my understanding of it, anyway.
This next post was obviously addressed to me. This was my post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlokd
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Leaping to his defense yet again, Gonzo? Then again, let him continue to speak for himself and I'm sure we'll have a scum hung by Monday, so I guess you'd better do something, huh.
Calling you out on your unhelpful gameplay is an entirely different matter? Care to excuse yourself for it?
I expect Jerome to speak on his behalf whenever he's addressed, but that won't stop me from pointing out inconsistencies from any side.
Dude, you are defending jerome, hard, I see fuckall evidence of you pointing out inconsistencies, mostly I see you taking exception and mischaracterizing posts.
People who have adovocated lynching Jerome claim to want to do so because they can't get a read on him. Of course I am defending him. Any town player should.
When you have a case that shows him to be scum in your opinion, then awesome I'd love to hear it. So far only Crumb's made a vote over behavior he's seen as scumtell.
The rest of that wagon is a joke.
other people who claim to be able to read him also think he is acting scum. I don't know, I don't think one can read jerome, I think his logic will always be shite and thats why he should be voted for.
I do freely admit I could be wrong, but you are so super obsessed with saving him, which strikes me as odd.
Straight out bey you're saying you don't care as to Jerome's alignment, you're prepared to lynch him on his shit logic skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Of course it doesn't apply, slim. According to Gonzo there is still NO GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER to vote for JEROME, and anyone still voting for him is scum, or something.
His verdict on my posts markedly ignores all the things JEROME did in between my initial vote and this point in the thread, assuming that my reason then, to apply pressure, is still my reason now simply because I have not explicitly mentioned a change in reasons.
Honestly, if it was still just to apply pressure, or just because of the 'I was being sarcastic!' lie, I wouldn't be voting for JEROME anymore. Because I would be voting for Gonzo. However, JEROME obligingly continues to flail, so I'm happy to sit where I am and simply watch Gonzo dig himself deeper right along side our dear gnome.
What did Jerome do Kael? Flail? Not really, no. He settled the fuck down and started answering people's posts. Gonzo's wagon doesn't have any steam but Jerome's does. If you keep pushing you may get a two for one town kill tonight, a lynch and a night kill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demimonde
Gonzo's white knighting Jerome would be suspicious if it wasn't Gonzo. He has this maddening "innocent until proven guilty" thing in his town play. He latches on people as tenaciously as bey does but in reverse. I am getting town vibes from him.
Slim seemed odd to me initally, but since then has been scumhunting. His ongoing discussion for lynching Jerome while voting Flint I didn't like, but I can see town motive for that. I am leaning town on him too.
Jerome does seem flaily. As town last game he did not flail like this. Earlier the Gnome BW didn't have much that he could defend himself against. Shit play is shit play. Those kinds of wagons don't sit well with me because I have seen to many town die that way. BUT now there are very specific things being pointed out that he hasn't or won't address: lying, posting the list, etc. He instead examines Mick and the quiet ones. Seems like a desperate attempt to misdirect. He is looking more like scum to me.
bey has settled down extremely and isn't repeating himself anymore. Also his focus has widened and I see him scumhunting. I like to see bey pressured early and often, but I see no real reason at this time.
unvote, vote Jerome
Also I want to note that Deadlokd has been WKing Jerome as well. As town he is typically more paranoid. It's been subtle as Gonzo has been more prolific about it. If Jerome flips scum I will be looking closer at Dl for that reason.
Flint's one post is maddening. Seriously, our potty mouths scared you? That seems like a bullshit reason to not participate.
Lyrical, you ignored my earlier post. Find that really odd.
A few things here Demi. slim's "scumhunting" has consisted of trying to get Jerome lynched, originally for just being a shit player and later he latched onto the "bey read his PM" comment from Jerome. But he's kept his vote on Flint. A nice safe place for a scum to park their vote as they work to get someone lynched elsewhere. What's the bet that if the vote on Jerome gets close to a lynch slim will say "Oh well, better put my vote where my mouth is!" and switch votes.
The list! I read the list and I could follow what he was thinking, mostly. Explanations would have been nice, but anyone reading the thread could see his train of thought. And that's important because it is a train of thought, not the disjointed shit he usually posts. Could he be scum? Absolutely. But I don't feel that. I get a much higher scummier feel from slim and Kael. slim, parking his vote on Flint and pushing the Jerome wagon and Kael, the perennial lurer who pops up to "put Jerome's back against the wall", posts some inconsequential crap and then engages in a little back and forth with slim. The Jerome wagon hasn't picked up steam so the scum are trying to push it hard, hence Kael jumping in.
The early wagon on Jerome hit my injustice button and I've been looking at it closely since. It was started on meta, horseshit reasons and it has only slightly improved. Crumb and lyrical have reasons why they're voting for him, Kael is just me tooing and mick got shitty when Jerome questioned his contributions. Is Mick one of the scum as well or just doesn't have anything original to add to the Jerome wagon? I don't know. I can't see all scum jumping on the same wagon this early.
If Jerome does get lynched and flips scum then I'll be surprised but completely understand when you look at me closely tomorrow. And seriously, if Jerome can hoodwink me that badly then I should probably be lynched for shit play too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Monkey
I still don't understand why you see a list as scummy. Sorry I don't get it, but can you try explaining it again?
A list like that, all players listed with things like 'leaning town', 'likely town', 'leaning scum', etc. is a great way to look like you're doing something without actually doing something. Especially because a list like the one JEROME put up provides no explanation for why he would be leaning town/scum on a given individual. No quotes, no references, no reasoning. This doesn't mean all lists ever are scummy, of course. But, a full roster with no background or explanation is really easy to write up and basically completely worthless.
That's my understanding of it, anyway.
Do you think the list is a good enough reason to vote for him or are you still happy with your "back against the wall" vote?
It was probably my bolded bit that irritated Kael because he went straight on the attack, misrepresenting pretty much everything I said in that post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
That's a nice story you tell, Deadlokd. In summation, you find JEROME perfectly cogent, found his amazing list helpful and exemplary scumhunting, and cannot fathom legitimate reasons for people to vote for him. Did I miss anything?
I suppose you would also object to being called out for white knighting as well? I won't bother. At this point I really feel that this whole situation speaks for itself. I am leaving my vote where it is.
Hmm, I definitely didn't say any of those but Kael was getting really touchy by now.
So the next post bey has FOSed him for being aggressive and Kael deflects saying that's how he plays now. Really? Since when? Since you were scum in this game and the Jerome lynch was getting away?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
note I haven't stopped my suspicion of you kael, for being aggressive like you were last game when you were scum.
You know what, I'll own that. I think I've become more assertive these past few games, and I don't hold myself back because I'm afraid someone will view what I say as scummy. I used to do that a lot in the games before, both as scum and as town.
Simple post. I questioned why he had misrepresented me. He denies it saying he's only exaggerated it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlokd
Oh hai Kael! Why did you misrepresent everything I said?
Exaggerate, sure. Misrepresent? How, exactly?
Here Crumb has questioned Kael as to Kael's reading of my post. I like the bit at the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
That's a nice story you tell, Deadlokd. In summation, you find JEROME perfectly cogent, found his amazing list helpful and exemplary scumhunting, and cannot fathom legitimate reasons for people to vote for him. Did I miss anything?
What you missed, I think, was a reasonable reading of Dl's post. This is a complete straw man.
Early on in the day I was very suspicious of Dl, but now in this exchange with you Kael, you are making him look very town and you look very scummy. Being aggressive is one thing, but completely misrepresenting someone is pointless.
Like I said, where did I do more than exaggerate? Of course he didn't actually say JEROME is perfectly cogent, or that his list was wonderful and amazing, but he did say:
Quote:
The list! I read the list and I could follow what he was thinking, mostly. Explanations would have been nice, but anyone reading the thread could see his train of thought.
How did I misrepresent him? He also said:
Quote:
Do you think the list is a good enough reason to vote for him or are you still happy with your "back against the wall" vote?
which to me means two things. First, he doesn't think the list is a good reason, and second, he assumes I only have one reason, which I'm pretty sure I said I had more at this point.
I'm still voting for JEROME, not for the initial reason of pressure, but because of his behavior since, including lying about his 'sarcastic' exchange with bey, OMGUS-ing mick when he pointed that lie out, and posting his list as a big 'hey look I'm doin' stuff!'
I'm trying not to turn into bey here, but I'm really quite shocked that Gonzo and dl are still amazed and astounded by people voting for JEROME. It boggles the mind.
It was funny because by that point Jerome had done twice as much scumhunting as Kael. Kael who was so fixated on getting Jerome lynched that he only deviated enough to OMGUS those who questioned him about it.
Next!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlokd
I already said I understand why Crumb and lyrical are voting for him because they explained it. You?
Hey, sorry if the issue is just lack of clarity on my part. I hope this
Quote:
I'm still voting for JEROME, not for the initial reason of pressure, but because of his behavior since, including lying about his 'sarcastic' exchange with bey, OMGUS-ing mick when he pointed that lie out, and posting his list as a big 'hey look I'm doin' stuff!'
clears things up a bit.
Yes, it clears a lot up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks
Having watched the way this has unfolded I have a theory (it's only a theory) that Jerome, bad for town as his play has been and, if he's spared the lynch, will be, is town. I cannot vote for someone I've come to believe is town.
I think slim is mistaken about him, but that is an honest mistake and he is also town.
I think Gonzo knows that Jerome is town and has wightknighted the unpopular townie in the hope that he will be lynched and bathe Gonzo in a gloriously righteous looking light when he flips town.
My vote stands. Goodnight.
Interesting. I still think JEROME is scum, so I'm going to leave my vote...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumb
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Crumb, take your vote off of me.
Uhh... why?
Because I am Town.
Sure why not? It's been there all game. Why move it now?
Moving on...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
No, JEROME, I am voting for you because of your scummy behavior, not because you are a bad player. That has been the case for some time now, in case anyone is still missing it.
Hmm, I didn't see that much scummy behaviour from Jerome yesterday. You had the list, the mick OMGUS and the bey PM thing. Two of those are horsecrap reasons to vote for someone, especially someone who looked like they were trying to get their shit together and play a good town game. Which, in the end, he did.
A short and sweet, suck shit type of post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Read the thread JEROME. I know I've explained it before, and I don't have all that many posts. Shouldn't be hard.
Very next post was Kael's too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
That's L-1
And the next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
shall I hammer myself???
That's bey's thing, I think.
And the next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Elouise, keep in mind that good Scum players present proper reasoning for Town to agree with.
And so I cannot choose the wine in front of you.
And that was it for day one. I see a spectacular lack of scumhunting and a lot of fixation on one player. He did occasionally look aside to OMGUS Gonzo and myself but that was it.
So we move on to day 2. Again bey has FOSed (except he has voted for him) Kael and here is Kael's response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
Looks like we are going to have to do this the old fashioned way.
vote kael
for being assertive like he was last game when he was scum.
Fair enough. I am sorry JEROME turned out to be town, but I've never claimed to be good at this. He seemed scummy to me, for reasons I've already explained, and aside from Deadlokd's and Gonzo's vehement defense of him, I didn't see anything else scummy enough to outweigh those reasons.
Looking back over Day 1 I begin to see more credence to mick's theory regarding Gonzo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks
I think Gonzo knows that Jerome is town and has wightknighted the unpopular townie in the hope that he will be lynched and bathe Gonzo in a gloriously righteous looking light when he flips town.
I voted for JEROME, and I explained why, including why those reasons shifted over the course of the day. Gonzo, on the other hand, defended JEROME even after his behavior deteriorated and (this is key here) more so, I think, than anyone without knowledge of JEROME's actual alignment would have.
Just a theory at this point. I'm not ready to vote yet.
Again we come down to those reasons. Now I know twelve people voted for Jerome and I'm sure some were scum but of those that voted for him, who was doing it to avoid a no lynch and who genuinely thought Jerome was a scum? Kael seemed very sure. Who else was?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Quote:
I see the Kaelwagon is mostly due to meta
No, actually, it is completely do to his gameplay. Do you think Kael has been particularilly helpful? What do you think about him voting only once? Does that seem like normal town behavior in and of itself?
I can't help but be amused here. You so vehemently defended JEROME based in no small part on the idea that lynching someone simply because they were unhelpful wasn't good enough (and ignored the actual reasons I had for voting for him), and now you want to lynch me for the same reason. Why the contradiction, Gonzo?
Looks like a strawman. Gonzo was defending Jerome because people were voting for him for being erratic. Gonzo is FOSing you because he's saying you haven't been scumhunting. You can't conflate the two points of view.
And his last post. It's a long one but he takes the time to work through some of Gonzo's questions. It's a big one and it looks like Kael put some time and thought into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Actually that's YOUR hypocrisy. You were third on the Jerome wagon when all it stood for was being helpful. My point is your play was no more helpful than his.
If you recall, I initially voted for JEROME not simply because he was unhelpful but because he didn't seem to be actually reading the thread. I had hoped a little pressure might fix that, but instead it brought out a number of reactions and behaviors that, to me, seemed scummy. So I left my vote.
FWIW I agree with you that lack of town-helpful play is not enough reason, in and of itself, to lynch someone. Especially not when there are other players or behaviors that are more suspicious. However, I'll repeat that I am not sorry I voted where my suspicion were. I am only sorry that I was wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Just a few questions.
Sure, let's go through them.
Quote:
Do you believe there were scum on Jerome's bandwagon? If so, who do you think they are and why?
I see no reason to think it more or less likely than whether scum were on anyone's bandwagon. Even if my theory about you and/or Deadlokd is correct and one or both of you are scum, there's no reason to think the rest of the scum team wouldn't feel free to jump on the wagon while you play the noble defender.
Quote:
Has your opinion of anyone's gameplay changed since the lynch and nightkill? Who and why (what caused that change of opinion)?
I've had no major changes of opinion, no. I have suspicions, but nothing solid enough to feel worth voicing, to me.
Quote:
You claimed to have thought Jerome was scum but found mick's theory interesting. On DAY ONE: Did you think I was scum trying to save another? Did you think I was scum playing the heroic role of defending a townie? Which was it?
On Day One? I was thinking primarily along the lines of you defending the fumbling JEROME because he was on your team. The idea that you might be scum but not JEROME, I hadn't fully considered. That's why I said mick's theory was interesting. End of Day One, though, I still thought JEROME was more likely scum than not, which is why I still voted for him.
As for your Occam's Razor wankery, perhaps you could explain why this:
Quote:
I defended Jerome as a scum ploy to earn early town cred
is less elaborate than this:
Quote:
there were scum with unjustifiable votes on Jerome early DAY ONE who remained there as they work to strengthen the case against him.
And I mean that sincerely because I'm not seeing it. Either one is a scum ploy, a gambit that carries risks but might pay off (though I think the first one would have a bigger payoff and less risk than the second, but that's just my opinion, and doesn't make it simpler or more complex, just smarter). What makes one more complex than the other?
Also consider, in your second scenario, that you began your passionate defense of JEROME before he was in any real danger, which 12 votes being necessary to lynch. That in itself doesn't mean much, as I can see reasons to react that quickly whether it was a ploy or genuine. The crux of the matter here is that you didn't back off in the least even after JEROME began behaving in genuinely scummy ways. That is what raises my suspicions, and what makes mick's and now my theory seem more and more plausible. I imagine you might even be able to ride that town cred through lynching me. I just hope that if you do so people take a look at this whole situation in a different light.
I don't know about that last post. It all seems so plausible. His reasons for the vote changing, him thinking about scum on the wagons, even his consideration of mick's theory. Of course, he's defended mick before when Jerome attacked his contributions.
Actually, no, that last post is shallow. It's seemingly deep answers to Gonzo's questions but he doesn't actually say anything. And where are the opinions on the other dramas that have been happening? No, I don't think you're town Kael. I think you werehappy having a parked early vote on a very likely lynch yesterday, panicked a bit when it looked like the Jerome wagon wouldn't pick up enough steam and now, today you have nothing substantive to say. Again.
__________________
Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
IJve read up to post #1195 so I have a few things to say but havenJt caughten up... but while I am here I will say that I think the focus on lyrical specifically is bizarre. There was an entire wagon on a flipped townie and she's being called out for 'peripheral scum playL. Wtf is that? Why not focus on classic scumtells forst. Like, I don't knowL lynching a member of the town?
wll with the bw on lyrical if she is lynched then we will know for about certain what raven and I am still almost 95% sure raven is scum
__________________
Live for today and not tomorrow
Live for the Now and whats here
Stop living for what maybe or what may never come
Live for the day already here
Sorry I've been less active this week, I'll be around after work tonight and will go through the new posts.
Lady Shea, you don't need a whole lot of suspicion to throw your vote around. It's best to get voting so you can pressure people into speaking, which is the only way people are going to slip up.
So just vote, have a reason, but it doesn't need to be a rock solid one, just a slight suspicion will do.
So vote for me because Jerome was town and you were 'back and forth' on me before me anyway
Or vote for Dagon because, well because is he even playing this fucking game?
Or vote for anyone else for a reason that comes to mind....
I'm going to vote Dagon in the hope he actually comes back and plays!
All right, so to get some talking happening I present:
My Thoughts on Kael or Why I'm Voting For Him
These are all of Kael's posts in this game. Some 25 yesterday and three today.
So he gets off to a typical innocuous start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Y'know, we probably should have come up with a code phrase or secret handshake before we all disguised ourselves as nondescript townsfolk, so we would know who's who.
Some mystery-solving genius you are, Ms. Drew.
A self-depreciating shifty eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenscape
If someone is known to be quiet and skate...
This was to Adam saying that flail can lead to inconsistencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
flail doesn't always equate to inconsistencies, though, and I think the inconsistencies would be the actual damning evidence, not the flail itself.
A nice little comment on the bey PM shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
bey is just being bey. I don't think he's half as convinced as he claims to be about the supposed benefits of not reading his PM on day 1. However, the idea that he doesn't, or doesn't want to, really seems to irk a lot of people, so he's going to continue to push it.
And here we have the first vote for the day. And it's not much of a vote, pretty much a "hopping on the bandwagon" type of vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Adding pressure just to find flail is a scummy thing to do.
I don't think so. The idea is pressure --> flail --> inconsistencies. Putting pressure on someone is an ok reason to vote for them, esp on day 1 when there's not much else to do. 'Course like I said before, I don't believe flailing is a lynchable offense in and of itself. It's the slip-ups you're looking for, and they're more likely when someone's back is to the wall.
Speaking of which, I'm going to Vote: JEROME, in the vain hope that putting his back against the wall will spark some reading comprehension.
And attention away from this game onto Scotland Yard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumb
Quote:
We should play Scotland Yard again sometime!
Oh sure, if anyone else is interested.
This is relevant to my interests. Someone less lazy than I should start sign-up thread.
This obviously is where Gonzo has voted for him and Kael is curious as to why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
vote Kael until he posts some more things and stuff
Out of curiosity, why single me out of the low-post-count crowd? More than half the players currently have 10 or fewer posts, 7 players have fewer posts than I, 4 players have 3 or fewer, and one player has only 1. Is that the 10-gallon hat you picked my name out of, or are you just happy to see me?
Here we have Kael attacking Jerome for questioning Teasasue for repeating the WoT she put up earlier. And for that, that was confirmation for Kael that Jerome was scummy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
FOS on that Teasasue , you only cluttered the thread.
Would you care to present your ideas without quoting pages of text.
Whatever, JEROME. You got what you asked for. If you were willing to read the thread in the first place, you wouldn't have had to ask teas to repeat herself.
I'm going to keep my vote on you, I think.
Here he is defending himself when questioned on his previous post. You can all read this and make your own minds up but this reads as forced and stilted. Followed by a throwaway "I don't care if I look suspicious!" and a reiteration that he's voting for Jerome for his behaviour.
Not long before that Crumb had voted for Kael for intercepting the Teas question. Crumb had also FOSed me in the same post but...he voted for Kael.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
I don't feel like I 'intercepted' the question. I responded because I laughed when teasasue answered it by quoting herself, and laughed even harder when JEROME complained about it.
Did no one else actually read the posts? Yes, there's a gigantic and mostly unnecessary quote in it. I found it annoying myself. She did actually write something in there, though, it wasn't just a quote. Sorry for being amused that JEROME couldn't be arsed to read it the first time, or when it was re-posted at his request.
In summation, I don't care if he or anyone else finds either teasasue's giant quote suspicious, nor do I care if they find my mocking response to his complaints suspicious. I will keep my vote on JEROME because of his behavior, not because I don't like him.
A tidy little post ostensibly questioning Gonzo's motivations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Y'know, Gonzo, you're getting awfully worked up in JEROME's defense, certainly more than I was when I mocked him about teasasue's repost.
And here he is OMGUSing Jerome for a perceived OMGUS on mickthinks. Which reminds me to look at mick's posts next. But yup, it's another intercept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Mick, you have 8 posts in this thread.
1. Vote for Gonzo
2. Weak argument for your Gonzo vote with a jumping on the Jerome thing because I am "unproductive"
3. Banter post to Gonzo
4. To Bey, arguing that Scum should be lynched, not unproductive players
5. Following Slim's attack on me.
6. Spurious logic that I don't read the thread.
7. Duplicate post #6
8. Arguing again that I don't read the thread.
Now Mick, what exactly have you given that has been productive?
This is definitely an OMGUS. Doesn't seem likely, with only 4 out of 12 necessary votes on him, but maybe he's starting to crack a little. Seriously, if I was leaning town on JEROME I wouldn't be voting for him, regardless of how useless he is. I vote because of behavior, not because of dislike for the player.
IOW, "C'mon guys! Can't you see Jerome's scummy behaviour? He's OMGUSing mickthinks!!" No, I didn't see it then and I don't see it now. Jerome's post was reasonable given mick's vote was on him almost from the get go and mick had done little else since. Who else had done little else since? Oh yes, Kael.
So the next post he's attacking Gonzo yet again. Why? Because he called bullshit on Kael's previous post. By this time Jerome had posted his list. No comment from Kael wrt that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Leaping to his defense yet again, Gonzo? Then again, let him continue to speak for himself and I'm sure we'll have a scum hung by Monday, so I guess you'd better do something, huh.
So here he is backing slim as slim attacks Gonzo. He also claims that his reasons have changed, he just hasn't bothered posting why. That's fair enough, he doesn't post much as it is. But this is where it all starts to get really interesting. This I think is where the first cracks appear. Jerome wasn't looking that good for a lynch, slim had an equally viable wagon happening and Kael's appeal to everyone who is leaning town on Jerome to vote for him hadn't really taken off. Is this where you felt the lynch escaping you Kael?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Of course it doesn't apply, slim. According to Gonzo there is still NO GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER to vote for JEROME, and anyone still voting for him is scum, or something.
His verdict on my posts markedly ignores all the things JEROME did in between my initial vote and this point in the thread, assuming that my reason then, to apply pressure, is still my reason now simply because I have not explicitly mentioned a change in reasons.
Honestly, if it was still just to apply pressure, or just because of the 'I was being sarcastic!' lie, I wouldn't be voting for JEROME anymore. Because I would be voting for Gonzo. However, JEROME obligingly continues to flail, so I'm happy to sit where I am and simply watch Gonzo dig himself deeper right along side our dear gnome.
So here's Kael's understanding of the list. The list is one of the reasons why he's voting for Jerome, as he says later. I think we can all agree that the list was incomplete as far as relevant quotes go but it really looks like Kael is seizing upon it to back up his early scum vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Monkey
I still don't understand why you see a list as scummy. Sorry I don't get it, but can you try explaining it again?
A list like that, all players listed with things like 'leaning town', 'likely town', 'leaning scum', etc. is a great way to look like you're doing something without actually doing something. Especially because a list like the one JEROME put up provides no explanation for why he would be leaning town/scum on a given individual. No quotes, no references, no reasoning. This doesn't mean all lists ever are scummy, of course. But, a full roster with no background or explanation is really easy to write up and basically completely worthless.
That's my understanding of it, anyway.
This next post was obviously addressed to me. This was my post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlokd
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Leaping to his defense yet again, Gonzo? Then again, let him continue to speak for himself and I'm sure we'll have a scum hung by Monday, so I guess you'd better do something, huh.
Calling you out on your unhelpful gameplay is an entirely different matter? Care to excuse yourself for it?
I expect Jerome to speak on his behalf whenever he's addressed, but that won't stop me from pointing out inconsistencies from any side.
Dude, you are defending jerome, hard, I see fuckall evidence of you pointing out inconsistencies, mostly I see you taking exception and mischaracterizing posts.
People who have adovocated lynching Jerome claim to want to do so because they can't get a read on him. Of course I am defending him. Any town player should.
When you have a case that shows him to be scum in your opinion, then awesome I'd love to hear it. So far only Crumb's made a vote over behavior he's seen as scumtell.
The rest of that wagon is a joke.
other people who claim to be able to read him also think he is acting scum. I don't know, I don't think one can read jerome, I think his logic will always be shite and thats why he should be voted for.
I do freely admit I could be wrong, but you are so super obsessed with saving him, which strikes me as odd.
Straight out bey you're saying you don't care as to Jerome's alignment, you're prepared to lynch him on his shit logic skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Of course it doesn't apply, slim. According to Gonzo there is still NO GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER to vote for JEROME, and anyone still voting for him is scum, or something.
His verdict on my posts markedly ignores all the things JEROME did in between my initial vote and this point in the thread, assuming that my reason then, to apply pressure, is still my reason now simply because I have not explicitly mentioned a change in reasons.
Honestly, if it was still just to apply pressure, or just because of the 'I was being sarcastic!' lie, I wouldn't be voting for JEROME anymore. Because I would be voting for Gonzo. However, JEROME obligingly continues to flail, so I'm happy to sit where I am and simply watch Gonzo dig himself deeper right along side our dear gnome.
What did Jerome do Kael? Flail? Not really, no. He settled the fuck down and started answering people's posts. Gonzo's wagon doesn't have any steam but Jerome's does. If you keep pushing you may get a two for one town kill tonight, a lynch and a night kill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demimonde
Gonzo's white knighting Jerome would be suspicious if it wasn't Gonzo. He has this maddening "innocent until proven guilty" thing in his town play. He latches on people as tenaciously as bey does but in reverse. I am getting town vibes from him.
Slim seemed odd to me initally, but since then has been scumhunting. His ongoing discussion for lynching Jerome while voting Flint I didn't like, but I can see town motive for that. I am leaning town on him too.
Jerome does seem flaily. As town last game he did not flail like this. Earlier the Gnome BW didn't have much that he could defend himself against. Shit play is shit play. Those kinds of wagons don't sit well with me because I have seen to many town die that way. BUT now there are very specific things being pointed out that he hasn't or won't address: lying, posting the list, etc. He instead examines Mick and the quiet ones. Seems like a desperate attempt to misdirect. He is looking more like scum to me.
bey has settled down extremely and isn't repeating himself anymore. Also his focus has widened and I see him scumhunting. I like to see bey pressured early and often, but I see no real reason at this time.
unvote, vote Jerome
Also I want to note that Deadlokd has been WKing Jerome as well. As town he is typically more paranoid. It's been subtle as Gonzo has been more prolific about it. If Jerome flips scum I will be looking closer at Dl for that reason.
Flint's one post is maddening. Seriously, our potty mouths scared you? That seems like a bullshit reason to not participate.
Lyrical, you ignored my earlier post. Find that really odd.
A few things here Demi. slim's "scumhunting" has consisted of trying to get Jerome lynched, originally for just being a shit player and later he latched onto the "bey read his PM" comment from Jerome. But he's kept his vote on Flint. A nice safe place for a scum to park their vote as they work to get someone lynched elsewhere. What's the bet that if the vote on Jerome gets close to a lynch slim will say "Oh well, better put my vote where my mouth is!" and switch votes.
The list! I read the list and I could follow what he was thinking, mostly. Explanations would have been nice, but anyone reading the thread could see his train of thought. And that's important because it is a train of thought, not the disjointed shit he usually posts. Could he be scum? Absolutely. But I don't feel that. I get a much higher scummier feel from slim and Kael. slim, parking his vote on Flint and pushing the Jerome wagon and Kael, the perennial lurer who pops up to "put Jerome's back against the wall", posts some inconsequential crap and then engages in a little back and forth with slim. The Jerome wagon hasn't picked up steam so the scum are trying to push it hard, hence Kael jumping in.
The early wagon on Jerome hit my injustice button and I've been looking at it closely since. It was started on meta, horseshit reasons and it has only slightly improved. Crumb and lyrical have reasons why they're voting for him, Kael is just me tooing and mick got shitty when Jerome questioned his contributions. Is Mick one of the scum as well or just doesn't have anything original to add to the Jerome wagon? I don't know. I can't see all scum jumping on the same wagon this early.
If Jerome does get lynched and flips scum then I'll be surprised but completely understand when you look at me closely tomorrow. And seriously, if Jerome can hoodwink me that badly then I should probably be lynched for shit play too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Monkey
I still don't understand why you see a list as scummy. Sorry I don't get it, but can you try explaining it again?
A list like that, all players listed with things like 'leaning town', 'likely town', 'leaning scum', etc. is a great way to look like you're doing something without actually doing something. Especially because a list like the one JEROME put up provides no explanation for why he would be leaning town/scum on a given individual. No quotes, no references, no reasoning. This doesn't mean all lists ever are scummy, of course. But, a full roster with no background or explanation is really easy to write up and basically completely worthless.
That's my understanding of it, anyway.
Do you think the list is a good enough reason to vote for him or are you still happy with your "back against the wall" vote?
It was probably my bolded bit that irritated Kael because he went straight on the attack, misrepresenting pretty much everything I said in that post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
That's a nice story you tell, Deadlokd. In summation, you find JEROME perfectly cogent, found his amazing list helpful and exemplary scumhunting, and cannot fathom legitimate reasons for people to vote for him. Did I miss anything?
I suppose you would also object to being called out for white knighting as well? I won't bother. At this point I really feel that this whole situation speaks for itself. I am leaving my vote where it is.
Hmm, I definitely didn't say any of those but Kael was getting really touchy by now.
So the next post bey has FOSed him for being aggressive and Kael deflects saying that's how he plays now. Really? Since when? Since you were scum in this game and the Jerome lynch was getting away?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
note I haven't stopped my suspicion of you kael, for being aggressive like you were last game when you were scum.
You know what, I'll own that. I think I've become more assertive these past few games, and I don't hold myself back because I'm afraid someone will view what I say as scummy. I used to do that a lot in the games before, both as scum and as town.
Simple post. I questioned why he had misrepresented me. He denies it saying he's only exaggerated it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlokd
Oh hai Kael! Why did you misrepresent everything I said?
Exaggerate, sure. Misrepresent? How, exactly?
Here Crumb has questioned Kael as to Kael's reading of my post. I like the bit at the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
That's a nice story you tell, Deadlokd. In summation, you find JEROME perfectly cogent, found his amazing list helpful and exemplary scumhunting, and cannot fathom legitimate reasons for people to vote for him. Did I miss anything?
What you missed, I think, was a reasonable reading of Dl's post. This is a complete straw man.
Early on in the day I was very suspicious of Dl, but now in this exchange with you Kael, you are making him look very town and you look very scummy. Being aggressive is one thing, but completely misrepresenting someone is pointless.
Like I said, where did I do more than exaggerate? Of course he didn't actually say JEROME is perfectly cogent, or that his list was wonderful and amazing, but he did say:
Quote:
The list! I read the list and I could follow what he was thinking, mostly. Explanations would have been nice, but anyone reading the thread could see his train of thought.
How did I misrepresent him? He also said:
Quote:
Do you think the list is a good enough reason to vote for him or are you still happy with your "back against the wall" vote?
which to me means two things. First, he doesn't think the list is a good reason, and second, he assumes I only have one reason, which I'm pretty sure I said I had more at this point.
I'm still voting for JEROME, not for the initial reason of pressure, but because of his behavior since, including lying about his 'sarcastic' exchange with bey, OMGUS-ing mick when he pointed that lie out, and posting his list as a big 'hey look I'm doin' stuff!'
I'm trying not to turn into bey here, but I'm really quite shocked that Gonzo and dl are still amazed and astounded by people voting for JEROME. It boggles the mind.
It was funny because by that point Jerome had done twice as much scumhunting as Kael. Kael who was so fixated on getting Jerome lynched that he only deviated enough to OMGUS those who questioned him about it.
Next!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlokd
I already said I understand why Crumb and lyrical are voting for him because they explained it. You?
Hey, sorry if the issue is just lack of clarity on my part. I hope this
Quote:
I'm still voting for JEROME, not for the initial reason of pressure, but because of his behavior since, including lying about his 'sarcastic' exchange with bey, OMGUS-ing mick when he pointed that lie out, and posting his list as a big 'hey look I'm doin' stuff!'
clears things up a bit.
Yes, it clears a lot up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks
Having watched the way this has unfolded I have a theory (it's only a theory) that Jerome, bad for town as his play has been and, if he's spared the lynch, will be, is town. I cannot vote for someone I've come to believe is town.
I think slim is mistaken about him, but that is an honest mistake and he is also town.
I think Gonzo knows that Jerome is town and has wightknighted the unpopular townie in the hope that he will be lynched and bathe Gonzo in a gloriously righteous looking light when he flips town.
My vote stands. Goodnight.
Interesting. I still think JEROME is scum, so I'm going to leave my vote...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumb
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Crumb, take your vote off of me.
Uhh... why?
Because I am Town.
Sure why not? It's been there all game. Why move it now?
Moving on...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
No, JEROME, I am voting for you because of your scummy behavior, not because you are a bad player. That has been the case for some time now, in case anyone is still missing it.
Hmm, I didn't see that much scummy behaviour from Jerome yesterday. You had the list, the mick OMGUS and the bey PM thing. Two of those are horsecrap reasons to vote for someone, especially someone who looked like they were trying to get their shit together and play a good town game. Which, in the end, he did.
A short and sweet, suck shit type of post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Read the thread JEROME. I know I've explained it before, and I don't have all that many posts. Shouldn't be hard.
Very next post was Kael's too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
That's L-1
And the next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
shall I hammer myself???
That's bey's thing, I think.
And the next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Elouise, keep in mind that good Scum players present proper reasoning for Town to agree with.
And so I cannot choose the wine in front of you.
And that was it for day one. I see a spectacular lack of scumhunting and a lot of fixation on one player. He did occasionally look aside to OMGUS Gonzo and myself but that was it.
So we move on to day 2. Again bey has FOSed (except he has voted for him) Kael and here is Kael's response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyelzu
Looks like we are going to have to do this the old fashioned way.
vote kael
for being assertive like he was last game when he was scum.
Fair enough. I am sorry JEROME turned out to be town, but I've never claimed to be good at this. He seemed scummy to me, for reasons I've already explained, and aside from Deadlokd's and Gonzo's vehement defense of him, I didn't see anything else scummy enough to outweigh those reasons.
Looking back over Day 1 I begin to see more credence to mick's theory regarding Gonzo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickthinks
I think Gonzo knows that Jerome is town and has wightknighted the unpopular townie in the hope that he will be lynched and bathe Gonzo in a gloriously righteous looking light when he flips town.
I voted for JEROME, and I explained why, including why those reasons shifted over the course of the day. Gonzo, on the other hand, defended JEROME even after his behavior deteriorated and (this is key here) more so, I think, than anyone without knowledge of JEROME's actual alignment would have.
Just a theory at this point. I'm not ready to vote yet.
Again we come down to those reasons. Now I know twelve people voted for Jerome and I'm sure some were scum but of those that voted for him, who was doing it to avoid a no lynch and who genuinely thought Jerome was a scum? Kael seemed very sure. Who else was?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Quote:
I see the Kaelwagon is mostly due to meta
No, actually, it is completely do to his gameplay. Do you think Kael has been particularilly helpful? What do you think about him voting only once? Does that seem like normal town behavior in and of itself?
I can't help but be amused here. You so vehemently defended JEROME based in no small part on the idea that lynching someone simply because they were unhelpful wasn't good enough (and ignored the actual reasons I had for voting for him), and now you want to lynch me for the same reason. Why the contradiction, Gonzo?
Looks like a strawman. Gonzo was defending Jerome because people were voting for him for being erratic. Gonzo is FOSing you because he's saying you haven't been scumhunting. You can't conflate the two points of view.
And his last post. It's a long one but he takes the time to work through some of Gonzo's questions. It's a big one and it looks like Kael put some time and thought into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Actually that's YOUR hypocrisy. You were third on the Jerome wagon when all it stood for was being helpful. My point is your play was no more helpful than his.
If you recall, I initially voted for JEROME not simply because he was unhelpful but because he didn't seem to be actually reading the thread. I had hoped a little pressure might fix that, but instead it brought out a number of reactions and behaviors that, to me, seemed scummy. So I left my vote.
FWIW I agree with you that lack of town-helpful play is not enough reason, in and of itself, to lynch someone. Especially not when there are other players or behaviors that are more suspicious. However, I'll repeat that I am not sorry I voted where my suspicion were. I am only sorry that I was wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo
Just a few questions.
Sure, let's go through them.
Quote:
Do you believe there were scum on Jerome's bandwagon? If so, who do you think they are and why?
I see no reason to think it more or less likely than whether scum were on anyone's bandwagon. Even if my theory about you and/or Deadlokd is correct and one or both of you are scum, there's no reason to think the rest of the scum team wouldn't feel free to jump on the wagon while you play the noble defender.
Quote:
Has your opinion of anyone's gameplay changed since the lynch and nightkill? Who and why (what caused that change of opinion)?
I've had no major changes of opinion, no. I have suspicions, but nothing solid enough to feel worth voicing, to me.
Quote:
You claimed to have thought Jerome was scum but found mick's theory interesting. On DAY ONE: Did you think I was scum trying to save another? Did you think I was scum playing the heroic role of defending a townie? Which was it?
On Day One? I was thinking primarily along the lines of you defending the fumbling JEROME because he was on your team. The idea that you might be scum but not JEROME, I hadn't fully considered. That's why I said mick's theory was interesting. End of Day One, though, I still thought JEROME was more likely scum than not, which is why I still voted for him.
As for your Occam's Razor wankery, perhaps you could explain why this:
Quote:
I defended Jerome as a scum ploy to earn early town cred
is less elaborate than this:
Quote:
there were scum with unjustifiable votes on Jerome early DAY ONE who remained there as they work to strengthen the case against him.
And I mean that sincerely because I'm not seeing it. Either one is a scum ploy, a gambit that carries risks but might pay off (though I think the first one would have a bigger payoff and less risk than the second, but that's just my opinion, and doesn't make it simpler or more complex, just smarter). What makes one more complex than the other?
Also consider, in your second scenario, that you began your passionate defense of JEROME before he was in any real danger, which 12 votes being necessary to lynch. That in itself doesn't mean much, as I can see reasons to react that quickly whether it was a ploy or genuine. The crux of the matter here is that you didn't back off in the least even after JEROME began behaving in genuinely scummy ways. That is what raises my suspicions, and what makes mick's and now my theory seem more and more plausible. I imagine you might even be able to ride that town cred through lynching me. I just hope that if you do so people take a look at this whole situation in a different light.
I don't know about that last post. It all seems so plausible. His reasons for the vote changing, him thinking about scum on the wagons, even his consideration of mick's theory. Of course, he's defended mick before when Jerome attacked his contributions.
Actually, no, that last post is shallow. It's seemingly deep answers to Gonzo's questions but he doesn't actually say anything. And where are the opinions on the other dramas that have been happening? No, I don't think you're town Kael. I think you werehappy having a parked early vote on a very likely lynch yesterday, panicked a bit when it looked like the Jerome wagon wouldn't pick up enough steam and now, today you have nothing substantive to say. Again.
ok so I dont blow up the board reposting all of this again, I just wanted to respond.
I dont really think that kael is scum at this point. There were a ton of people on the jerome wagon that had the same reason or worse reasons than Kael did.
As for him getting jumpy and irratated, well I think if people were comming at me like that I would probably do the same and get smart back. Does that make him scum? No, not imo.
I think with that I am going to post my list again and see what everyone thinks about the people I have pegged for scum.
1. Raven scum post 972 pg 39, 980 pg 40, pg 40 996, pg 43 1071
2. Elouise scum pg 43 po 1064
3. Slim scum
4. Lyrical scum pg 40 po 993, pg 43 po 1071, pg 46 po 1149
5. Gonzo possible scum
6. Demi possible scum pg 49 post 1201
7. Mick possible scum
8. Flying monkey scum pg 44 po 1086
9. Deadlokd possible scum pg 40post 976
10. Pan possible scum
11. Flint not sure
12. Kael not sure
13. Bey not sure
14. Less possible scum pg 40 po 989
15. Adam not sure
16. Dagon not sure
17. Fragment not sure pg 43 po 1068
18. Wei yau town
19. Teasasue town
20. Lady Shea Town
21. Crumb town Cop
22. Jerome town p 40 po 987, pg 44 po 1090
I would also like to point out the top and encourage people to look at the few posts I have posted by raven. I dont trust her and I really believe her to be scum. I think it would be in the towns best interests to see her lynched.
IMO she has already claimed to be scum if you read the post about her and lyrical not being on the same team.
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Something about the way you are posting is bothering me, teas, You are being very helpful or at least trying. I do not remember this kind of posting from you before, but I might have been tuning you out.
Further, raven answered that allegation before and showed that you are failing at logic, you should probably go dig that up and respond to it.
I'd be willing to vote for flint if it looks to come down to that or a no-lynch. Same goes for Lyrical, they're both high on my 'not sure but very suspicious' list.
Thanks for the giant analysis post, Dl. It went a long way toward convincing me that you and Gonzo are on the same team and know it, which odds are makes you both scum.
I'm going to vote: Gonzo as a gesture of principle. I doubt all that wonderful town cred you two built up from your noble defense will let a serious wagon build on either of you, so I'll likely be switching my vote to whoever is both closest to lynch and on my suspicion list before the deadline.
Something about the way you are posting is bothering me, teas, You are being very helpful or at least trying. I do not remember this kind of posting from you before, but I might have been tuning you out.
Further, raven answered that allegation before and showed that you are failing at logic, you should probably go dig that up and respond to it.
also, everyone should vote flint.
also teas, why is wei yau town on your list?
the last game was my 1st game. Yes I am still learning, so I am trying harder this time to find the right scum so we dont start lynching a bunch of town like then.
As far as tuning me out I think you have done that more this game. Last time me and you played you and I were arguing a lot.
Yes I know that raven answered that and I told her that I didnt believe her. I just want everyone to take it in to consideration. Scum lie, I dont believe that she is telling the whole truth. If her and lyrical know each other as well as she says, then that would be something both players would be cautious of. Maybe change up how they play a little. Confuse the other while getting the town to vote for the wrong one.
I dont really see a reason for me to vote for flint at this time in the game. He is not at the top of my scum list. He has also not really done anything very scummy imo yet.
as far as wei yau, I dont really know his style much and have not paid much attention to how he answers things on the normal board so I am not getting anything scummy from him yet. If there is something that I have missed that you would like to point out to me that would make him seem scummy I am more than willing to look at it. I could have very well missed something.
Hope this helps.
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I'd be willing to vote for flint if it looks to come down to that or a no-lynch. Same goes for Lyrical, they're both high on my 'not sure but very suspicious' list.
Thanks for the giant analysis post, Dl. It went a long way toward convincing me that you and Gonzo are on the same team and know it, which odds are makes you both scum.
I'm going to vote: Gonzo as a gesture of principle. I doubt all that wonderful town cred you two built up from your noble defense will let a serious wagon build on either of you, so I'll likely be switching my vote to whoever is both closest to lynch and on my suspicion list before the deadline.
I am not feeling the Gonzo is total scum yet. Last game he did about the same as he is now. Defending who he thought was town. He was town in that game also and we lynched him for that. I am not willing to make that same mistake a 2nd time.
I do know that there was 1 thing that pegged me as him being scummy but I didnt make a note of it so I will have to go back and look at the beginning of day 1 again. I didnt much think of adding my reason for my thoughts to my list until everyone jumped on jerome about it, so I went back and added those. I am still in the process of adding them all.
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I still feel slim is scummy, I just have more reason to believe that raven is. I will come back around to slim.
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Oh sorry my bad I thought the last was directed to me. I thought you were bouncing off of beys post. my bad
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In isolation, I think his behavior is pretty scummy, largely because of his uncharacteristically aggressive pursuit of several other players and hyperbolic misrepresentation of their statements. There's a weird Kael-slim-Gonzo-Deadlokd cross-accusation thing going on, though, that's confusing me. I find it odd that, when it appeared down to slim or JEROME, a number of people (including you, btw) quickly abandoned the slimwagon, assuring that JEROME would get lynched rather than slim, and jumped onto Kael. It smells like a railroad.
If I had to lynch someone right now, btw, I'd go with Flint, simply because he(?) has made a very low number of posts, each of which is moderately scummy in and of itself. Since I don't have to lynch anyone right now, I'm trying to pick apart the interactions noted above.
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