Miscellany

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by Adam

Entirely independent of whether or not debt collectors behave immorally, the notion that choosing to face the established penalties of defaulting on a loan rather than pay that loan back is somehow immoral is suspect. Businesses do it all the time, when the cost of paying back the loan outweighs the cost of just dealing with the penalties. It's called strategic default. Why should it be any different when it's an individual?

Word. This really smart guy I follow on google shared this thing like ages ago, but it's relevant, I think.

Law Professor: Walking Away From Mortgages Is The Only Way to Get Banks to Negotiate | Crooks and Liars

The main point, he says, is that too often people's "emotions" get in the way of clear financial thinking about mortgages, turning them into what he calls "woodheads" - "individuals who choose not to act in their own self-interest." Most owners are too worried about feelings of shame and embarrassment following a foreclosure, and ignore the powerful financial reasons for doing so.

Buttressing these emotions is a system that White labels "the social control of the housing crisis" - pressures and messages continually sent to consumers by the "social control agents," namely banks, government and the media. The mantra these agents - all the way up to President Obama - pound into owners' heads, says White, is that "voluntarily defaulting on a mortgage is immoral."

Yet there is an inherent imbalance in the borrower-lender relationship which makes this morality message unfair to consumers: Banks set the rules during the housing boom, handing out home loans with no down payments, no income checks, and inflated appraisals. Now that property values have dropped 20 percent to 50 percent in many areas, banks have been slow to modify troubled mortgages and reluctant to reduce principal debts.

show spoiler

[Ensign Steve]

In fact, bey and I were talking about this issue a few days ago (we're not in trouble or anything, we were just thinking about the what-ifs of life) and this issue came up. If you walk away from your home loan or default on it or whatever, and they foreclose, it's not like you're stealing from the bank or getting something for nothing. They get to keep your fucking house. You don't get back any of what you paid into it or anything. So, yeah, boo fucking hoo on the banks, not.

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

Yeah, that's true.


I am in love with this concert. I NEED the MP3s:

Dailymotion - Dolly Parton & Melissa Etheridge -...

YouTube - Dolly Parton and Melissa...

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by Adam

Entirely independent of whether or not debt collectors behave immorally, the notion that choosing to face the established penalties of defaulting on a loan rather than pay that loan back is somehow immoral is suspect. Businesses do it all the time, when the cost of paying back the loan outweighs the cost of just dealing with the penalties. It's called strategic default. Why should it be any different when it's an individual?

That is EXACTLY right. In fact, I'd substitute "preposterous" for "suspect." Several million years ago my contracts prof said that the purpose of contract law isn't to prevent contract breaching but rather to encourage economically efficient breaching. Morality doesn't enter into it at all.

Is there anything moral or immoral about making a "liar's loan" based on an appraisal you know (or at least suspect) is 20-30% overinflated? Nope. It's a business risk, plain and simple. It's arguably a stupid business risk based on misplaced faith in the quaint notion that real estate values always, forever and invariably go up, but it's a business risk nonetheless. If the downside of the risk materializes, you deal with it and cut your losses as fully as possible. If you took the same risk a bazillion times and it materialized in every case, you go under. C'est la vie, motherfucker.

The only arguable immorality in these situations is using morality to discourage borrowers from exercising their own damage control options.

That's what Neil Peart was trying to say in all those Rush tunes, but did anybody listen? Hell no.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

If the downside of the risk materializes, you deal with it and cut your losses as fully as possible. If you took the same risk a bazillion times and it materialized in every case, you go under. C'est la vie, motherfucker.

Except you don't. You fucking cry until you get bailed out. And then continue to try to collect on those loans? And accuse the people who are still unable to pay of being immoral?! It angries up the blood something fierce.

[lisarea]

I also agree with that Matlock guy, and. Oh.

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

That's what Neil Peart was trying to say in all those Rush tunes, but did anybody listen? Hell no.

Your things are on the lawn. Come get them before the raccoons do.

[Qingdai]

Do raccoons like Rush albums?

[Ymir's blood]

Originally Posted by Qingdai

Do raccoons like Rush albums?

Only the early ones. Oh and it's nice to leave them some munchies too.

[Qingdai]

[Crumb]

So someone on Dancing With The Stars apparently got it in their heads to record the most awkward scene imaginable. I think they nailed it.

YouTube - 'The Situation' and Bristol...

[livius drusus]

You know they boned liked two-peckered billy goats the minute the cameras turned off.

[lisarea]

I sort of feel like I want to go watch 2G1C or something for a while to get that out of my head.

[wildernesse]

So Bristol's acting is as bad as her dancing.

[Ari]

I am afraid to watch this.

"After watching this, I want to punch my computer in the face, hop on a plane, punch the fucking Situation in the face, hop on another plane, punch Palin in the face, then shoot myself in the face so I never have to experience this monstrosity again."
AgencySpy

[erimir]

It's kinda sad when The Situation is better and far less awkward as an actor than you.

[Sock Puppet]

I didn't even know The Situation was a person until these posts. Sweet, blissful ignorance, I miss you already.

[Ari]

Wow ok that was pretty painful and amazingly hypocritical. I guess it takes someone in the Palin family to make "the situation" look reasonable and intelligent, although you could almost see the puppeteers hand up their asses as I don't think they have an original thought between the two of them.

Sit, "Oh snap, B. Palin!"
Sit, "I know you're all about that abstinence thing, come on B Palin you serious you're not going to hook up with, like, before you're married, for real?"
BP, "For real."
Sit, "For real for real?"
BP, "For real for real for real." said the girl who got pregnant without being married.

Does no one really know what the term "for real" means? Or is it one of those ironic hipster things where you only use it when you mean the opposite?

She then worries about the situation and turns down condoms. Because if there is anyone that doesn't need condoms, it's Palin, cause she doesn't get herself 'into situations.'

[Ensign Steve]

Not to be one of those guys like Sock Puppet who is all proud of their ignorance (okay, exactly to be one of those guys), I saw a clip of this on Your Moment of Zen, and I was like, "Oh, is that what the Situation is? Who's the chick?" Yay!

[Dingfod]

Conan O'Brian interviewed The Situation on last night's show, ending with trying to start a campaign to get The Sit on Jersey Shore.

[viscousmemories]

I only knew The Situation exists because they occasionally mock Jersey Shore on TDS/Colbert. I had only seen pictures before, though. I'd never heard the freak talk.

[Ensign Steve]

Oh, yeah, I was aware of his existence, but he totally didn't look or sound like what I expected. Mostly I just know that he has good abs because people talk about that on the fitness boards.

And Bristol I've seen before on TV and stuff, but I guess I didn't pay attention or something because I didn't recognize her in the clip and thought she was some other Jersey girl besides Snooki because I would recognize Snooki. (She's like Sarah Palin, only better.)

Or maybe because of the abstinence comment, that she was one of those Disney purity-ring cult leaders and it was some kind of bizarre pop-culture crossover (or I guess a different bizarre pop-culture crossover than the one it turned out to be). I honestly had no idea what was going on.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by Dingfod

Conan O'Brian interviewed The Situation on last night's show, ending with trying to start a campaign to get The Sit on Jersey Shore.

Wait, he's not already? That's, like, who I thought he was. Some guy on Jersey Shore.

[Adam]

I thought that's who he was too. I've seen a grand total of one episode of that show, but I swear there was a dude named the Situation on there.

[lisarea]

You guys are all so, so stupid.

[Ensign Steve]

Okay, Smartypants, if you know everything there is to know about The Situation, why don't you educate us?