The Pursuit of Happiness

[Petra]

What is it? What does it mean?

It seems to me that The Pursuit of Happiness has been confused with The Pursuit of Owning Lots of Stuff, or The Pursuit of Instant Gratification. It also seems to me that many people are nowhere near happy.

My own random, uneducated thoughts on this topic have had me pondering the idea that The Pursuit of Happiness is a relatively new thing in the history of the world and that the more we reach for it, the further it seems to be from many of us.

People are consuming more and more anti-depressants and depression is becoming more widespread, even among children and young people. Yet here we are in the affluent west, with all our entertainment and thrills and possessions, and despite all we have many people are still not happy.

So what does The Pursuit of Happiness mean to you? How do you think you might attain Happiness? And if you do manage to attain it, how will you keep it? Is it even possible to keep it - or for that matter, really reach it? Is it just a pipe dream?

[Dingfod]

I've known only a few truly happy people in my life and their happiness definitely had nothing to do with acquisition of material goods, more to do with love, family, friends, health, and peace of mind. I'm not one of those people and never have been, ever. Many many of the mistakes I've made in life and my finances have a great deal to do with trying to achieve happiness.

For me The Pursuit of Happiness means at least trying different things in attempts to move toward personal happiness, trying not to repeat those things that bring about the opposites, pain and unhappiness. Sometimes happiness appears to be buying that new car or a new computer game, but that almost always only gives temporary satisfaction. Sometimes personal happiness comes through making others happy, sharing their joy, so to speak. Most of the time, for me anyway, happiness is elusive, so the pursuit of it is all I get.

Now that I read what I've written, it just looks stupid to me. Damn, no happiness for me today. Oh, well, off to the pursuit of it. A-fucking-gain.


Warren

[Gawen]

As idiotic as may sound, happiness is that which does not make me sad. It's all relative. Not only is one man's happiness another man's sorrow, but also one man's emotions also dictates his sorrows...or happiness. What may make someone happy today may also make the same someone angry or sad tomorrow. It's simply being human. And in todays fluid society, many people can't or won't find the time to be happy or remain happy, or what they think is happiness.

[HelenM]

People do many things which cause them to be less happy than they could be. Such as: trying to control other people or anything else they have no control over; holding unrealistic expectations and getting angry/upset when they aren't met; focusing disproportionately on negative things in their lives; caring too much what other people think; worrying about things that may never happen.

That's not to say that people don't experience things that by any standards are difficult, painful, upsetting, infuriating. Of course, they do. But even then some people seem to cope with them better than others.

I think the current emphasis on depression as an illness is a double-edged sword. It helpfully encourages more compassion towards sufferers but it unhelpfully underemphasizes the amount of control the sufferers can have over their depression.

I think if you want to be happy, you need to start by aiming to be as happy as possible if nothing in your life changed. I doubt that people who think they need something they haven't got to be happy will ever be very happy. Although I don't see anything wrong in desiring things and making every effort to achieve/attain them. Just don't condition your happiness on them because if you do, you probably won't be happy when you get them. That's what I believe, anyway.

Helen

p.s. I haven't read this for a while but I liked it a lot when I did: What Happy People Know by Dan Baker

[JoeP]

One of my colleagues has a maid called Happiness. I'm not interested in pursuing her.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by HelenM

...

I think if you want to be happy, you need to start by aiming to be as happy as possible if nothing in your life changed.

...

Profound enough to stick up on the wall, Helen.

[Nil Desperandum]

I just got done tearing the shit out of my front lawn. I tore out all the moss and shitty soil, and then I tore it up, put down massive grass seed, fertilized it, and I water it every day when I come home.

I then go upstairs after greeting my love, Jamie, and I play video games.

Walking barefoot through the grass, watering it, knowing I am helping to grow it, and to feel proud of actually accomplishing something worthwhile, is happiness.

Blowing the shit out of demons in Doom ]|[ is not.

Chris

[xorbie]

I'll be the first to admit that at 19, I can't pretend to know understand all of life's mysteries. That said, my own opinion is that it's because the Pursuit of Happiness is so vague that it is unreachable. Happiness, IMO, is not so much an emotion like joy or pleasure, but rather a state of being where you have no pressing wants, desires, worries or fears.

Basically, for me, happiness is just being comfortable with who I am, and what I've done/am doing with my life. Material objects will come and go, and so, unfortunatly, will many people. But so long as you have a solid foundation in yourself, you can be fairly happy. A life might be remembered for a few select occasions of great pleasure, but it is really the ins and outs of daily life that determine whether or not we are happy people.

[LadyShea]

You know, this is a good question, and I feel I have an answer for it, but I simply cannot articulate it.

Basically, I think people that let life happen to them, rather than actively LIVE it and savor it, get depressed more often. Collecting things isn't living life, unless you use those things to add fun and joy.

Oh nevermind, I was right, I cannot articulate ir.

[Beth]

I think happiness is to be able to live life without fear.

edited to add: Happiness, I think is to be able to live without fear, or facing the fear and overcoming it.
Oppression is lumped in with fear, IMO, because there is much for the oppressed to fear.

[LadyShea]

That's a great observation Beth and I think you're right on. I would also add that happiness is living without regret...regretting things said, not said, done or not done...probably due to fear. I don't want to regret, so I say what's on my mind...and sometimes it's the wrong thing and I have to make amends, but I don't have regrets like "I wish I had told so and so how I feel" or "I wish I had taken that opportunity to ...."

[pescifish]

I have always thought happiness is overrated. I think it is absurd to pursue it. You can't get happy, you are happy. The old Jedi "don't try, just do" becomes "don't do, just be".

....

Ah crap. I just wrote a whole bunch of stuff that I firmly believe but in rereading it I realize I just don't know how to express it. Well, without sounding like some New Age Jedi Knight Taoist, that is.

Maybe I'll try again later. Bottom line is: I personally do not think happiness is a worthwhile 'goal' or that it can even be a goal. I think experiencing the broad spectrum of emotions is the only worthwhile thing we can do as individuals during our time in existence. To 'try' to have a particular emotion, or to limit to just one particular emotion is Not A Good Thing, in my opinion.

[SharonDee]

I like Denis Leary's treatment of the topic from his "No Cure for Cancer":

Nobody's happy, ok!? Happiness comes in small doses folks. It's a cigarette, or a chocolate cookie, or a five second orgasm. That's it, ok! You cum, you eat the cookie, you smoke the butt, you go to sleep, you get up in the morning and go to fucking work, ok!? That is it! End of fucking list!

[HelenM]

Originally Posted by pescifish

I personally do not think happiness is a worthwhile 'goal' or that it can even be a goal. I think experiencing the broad spectrum of emotions is the only worthwhile thing we can do as individuals during our time in existence. To 'try' to have a particular emotion, or to limit to just one particular emotion is Not A Good Thing, in my opinion.

I agree with you. I don't see how a person could appreciate being happy, or even be aware that they are happy, unless they've experienced unhappiness too.

I do think it's legitimate to pursue a range of emotions which is based in the reality of one's life and includes times of happiness. For example, a person who suffers intense anxiety would have the goal of being afraid when there is something significant to fear, but otherwise not. And a depressed person would have the goal of having a 'normal' range of emotions restored to them, rather than never feeling happy.

Helen

[HelenM]

Originally Posted by Beth

I think happiness is to be able to live life without fear.

edited to add: Happiness, I think is to be able to live without fear, or facing the fear and overcoming it.
Oppression is lumped in with fear, IMO, because there is much for the oppressed to fear.

Yes, I don't think it's possible to be happy at the same time as you're experiencing signicant fear.

And facing a fear and overcoming it is a wonderful thing!

Helen

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by SharonDee

I like Denis Leary's treatment of the topic from his "No Cure for Cancer":

Nobody's happy, ok!? Happiness comes in small doses folks. It's a cigarette, or a chocolate cookie, or a five second orgasm. That's it, ok! You cum, you eat the cookie, you smoke the butt, you go to sleep, you get up in the morning and go to fucking work, ok!? That is it! End of fucking list!

Dammit, I spent a great deal of time yesterday looking for that very quote for this thread (I just saw him on the Top 100 Comedians doing that very bit last week).

Oh well <shrug>, at least now I have it saved for the next time something like this comes up.

[SharonDee]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Dammit, I spent a great deal of time yesterday looking for that very quote for this thread.

Here. Don't say I never gave ya nuttin':

No Cure For Cancer

[Nil Desperandum]

Happiness is watching your lover smile because you stopped doing what you wanted to do, to help them out.

/random

[Petra]

Originally Posted by warrenly

I've known only a few truly happy people in my life and their happiness definitely had nothing to do with acquisition of material goods, more to do with love, family, friends, health, and peace of mind.

I have met some happy people in my life, too, and have often been happy myself.

I wonder if it also has something to do with one's genetic character/brain chemistry, as well.

I just want to share two happy people with you, because they are literally poles apart. They have nothing in common in their lives, whatsoever:

Zoe's godmother is a multi-millionaire and I've never seen her unhappy. She follows the sun around the globe all year, owning a home in 4 countries for 4 seasons. She never has to worry about the bills when they come in, does exactly as she pleases without thought to the expense, and has a pretty beautiful life.

Abu Ali was a poor Palestinian; a simple baker who worked long hours in rough conditions, had a big heart, and whose generosity knew no bounds. His old stone pita oven/cafe was in East Jerusalem (the Arab quarter) and his home was in Ramallah. Some days just getting to and from work was dangerous business, and he would be roughed up by soldiers and made to feel like shit. But he would always come to work with a smile and bring me delicious treats that his wife had made for "daughter number 11, from NZ".

Many many of the mistakes I've made in life and my finances have a great deal to do with trying to achieve happiness.

I've never been quite sure if I was running to something, or from it. Perhaps you and I are the same this way. I know I have more stress these days, and it's not the healthy kind that I have thrived on in the past.

For me The Pursuit of Happiness means at least trying different things in attempts to move toward personal happiness, trying not to repeat those things that bring about the opposites, pain and unhappiness....Sometimes personal happiness comes through making others happy, sharing their joy, so to speak.

I agree. Learn from past mistakes without becoming bitter, and share with others your joys and your sorrows.

Most of the time, for me anyway, happiness is elusive, so the pursuit of it is all I get.

For some reason, me too. But I'll figure it out one day.

Now that I read what I've written, it just looks stupid to me.

It doesn't look stupid to me, Warren. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Damn, no happiness for me today. Oh, well, off to the pursuit of it. A-fucking-gain.


Warren

Best wishes, honey bee.

[Petra]

Originally Posted by Gawen

As idiotic as may sound, happiness is that which does not make me sad.

I am not 100% on this one. There have been far too many days where I am simply numb. I feel nothing; I am empty. This is not sadness, as such - but it sure ain't happiness, either.

It's all relative.

Agreed

Not only is one man's happiness another man's sorrow, but also one man's emotions also dictates his sorrows...or happiness.

Yes, I agree. The second sentence touches on my musings that happiness can be genetic or to do with brain chemistry. The first sentence raises other questions, which I won't go into too much as I could wander off on all kinds of rants about multi-national corporations and environmental laws, etc, but a lighter example might be that owning a dog may make you happy, but stepping in dogshit makes your neighbours very unhappy. Compromises need to be reached, and the dog owner has some additional responsibilities, which if neglected makes everyone unhappy.

What may make someone happy today may also make the same someone angry or sad tomorrow.

Aye. It's all a matter of perspective.

And in todays fluid society, many people can't or won't find the time to be happy or remain happy, or what they think is happiness.

But why?

[Petra]

I'll have to respond to others later - I've run out of time. Thanks for your thoughtful replies and insights, though. Much appreciated.

[Gawen]

Well, I read this thread a thought a bit....and there's so many good points.

There have been far too many days where I am simply numb. I feel nothing; I am empty. This is not sadness, as such - but it sure ain't happiness, either.

Yes, I should have included "numb", angry, and any other instance that does not include happiness.

Compromises need to be reached, and the dog owner has some additional responsibilities, which if neglected makes everyone unhappy.

Sometimes including the dog.

And in todays fluid society, many people can't or won't find the time to be happy or remain happy, or what they think is happiness. But why?

Is the married w/children, 1/4 million dollar homeowner, hour at the gym, bring home work, corporate w/ 6 figure pay person any happier? Or does his/her ulcers, heavy workload, heavy bills and taxes, higher than average upkeep on the vehicles, private school for the kids, offset this happiness?

In the olden days, Victorian, Edwardian days, people knew what was expected of them. Class distinction was not so much in mind, but never forgotten. In recent years, espcially after the Titanic holocaust (which began the breakdown of classes) a whole different world opened up. WW2 opened up jobs for women, who proved they COULD weld or be a shipfitter or tank builder. Civil rights opened up avenues for minorities. And the world in general has gone from "This is the way it is" to out of control subway. When do we get on? HOW do we get on? Where to get off? Too fast.

Of course this doesn't mean that everyone gets this way. Small Town, Anywhere still lopes along at tortise speed, some laughing at life passing them by. Some crying that the freeway or bond package didn't go through and they're relegated to obscurity. Like I said, happiness is relative.

And then there's those of us inbetween that can manage a ride on that speeding train...but damnit...let me off this frikkin thing so I can take a breath now and then.

But why Lunachick? Really, I don't know.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by SharonDee

Here. Don't say I never gave ya nuttin':

No Cure For Cancer

Perfecto.

Thanks!

Well...I'm happy...for now.

[Petra]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Perfecto.

Thanks!

Well...I'm happy...for now.

LOL. And sometimes it's as simple as that.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by lunachick

It seems to me that The Pursuit of Happiness has been confused with The Pursuit of Owning Lots of Stuff, or The Pursuit of Instant Gratification. It also seems to me that many people are nowhere near happy.

Well, this is true, but I'm struggling to get beyond platitudes like "money is the root of all evil"; "happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have"; etc.

Originally Posted by lunachick

My own random, uneducated thoughts on this topic have had me pondering the idea that The Pursuit of Happiness is a relatively new thing in the history of the world and that the more we reach for it, the further it seems to be from many of us.

I don't agree at all that pursuing happiness is new. I think "pursuing happiness" is a perfectly good way of describing our instinctive behaviour, and was probably done by bushmen and cavemen 40,000 years ago: big antelope kill? Let's lie in the sun for a day, dance round the fire at night.

I do think modern life brings new dimensions to the pursuit of happiness. One of many of these is seeing what other people have (directly or via advertising) and wanting that too, regardless of need.

In fact, I think the idea that pursuing happiness is wrong is an invention of the past few thousand years (invented by those in power to control others) and it's a strong feature of the Abrahamic religions.

Originally Posted by lunachick

People are consuming more and more anti-depressants and depression is becoming more widespread, even among children and young people. Yet here we are in the affluent west, with all our entertainment and thrills and possessions, and despite all we have many people are still not happy.

Yes, we are disconnected from what actually could make us happy, and depression's a symptom. A lot of us could benefit from some lessening of desires (I was going to write self-denial but that's pointless if you still have the desire).

The thing about anti-depressants is that the science is very limited and most of them don't work predictably. But I'm on some good ones now!

Happiness is stopping on a single-lane bridge on the way to work and enjoying the Braamfontein river rushing over boulders 10 feet away from the window.

joe