Good King Trump

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Breaking News: A House committee voted to publicly release Donald Trump’s tax information, which he kept secret in defiance of modern tradition. https://t.co/Jvx5lyqMYO

— The New York Times (@nytimes) December 21, 2022

[ChuckF]

NYT had the absolute shittiest take this morning, that Republicans might engage in reprisals if Democrats release Trump's tax returns. Bitch, have you met Republicans?

Also, this would be bad becase it would, uh

represent both a significant act of transparency and what some fear is the end of an era of taxpayer privacy.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

Republicans might engage in reprisals if Democrats release Trump's tax returns.

Nice abuser logic.

[specious_reasons]

I was wrong before - the report published after the final Jan 6th meeting was the preliminary report.
The final Jan 6th report is here.

I've just started, it's long - I don't know if I will get past the executive summary. We'll see.

[LarsMac]

QOTD.

"We can never surrender to democracy’s enemies. We can never allow America to be defined by forces of division and hatred. We can never go backward in the progress we have made through the sacrifice and dedication of true patriots. We can never and will never relent in our pursuit of a more perfect union, with liberty and justice for all Americans."
- Bennie G Thompson
Chairman of the Jan 6 committee

[specious_reasons]

I had already read the executive summary. It's functionally the same as the report that was released immediately after the final hearing. It's been formatted, cleaned up and possibly lightly edited, but the essential content is the same.

I'm into the rest of the document, and there's just a lot more detail. The executive summary is probably enough for most people. In fact, for most people, watching the public hearings would be enough. I'd say the executive summary reinforces what the public hearing revealed, and the full report is piling on details.

One thing I don't understand - why isn't John Eastman being disbarred? He's the lawyer who came up with the intentionally false legal theory that the Vice President can reject the electoral vote - the thing that Trump was pressuring Pence to do on Jan 6th. Eastman knew that interpretation of the Constitution was false, but he was hoping that if Pence did it, it would give them the opportunity to introduce the fake electors and steal the election.

I mean literally steal the election. After the selection of the electors, Biden was lawfully elected the President. After that point, Trump resorted to criminal behavior to disrupt that process, and Eastman assisted. Eastman even knew this,

Days afterward, Eastman sent an email to Giuliani, making a
request that tacitly acknowledged just how much trouble he was in: “I’ve
decided that I should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works.”

Maybe if he actually gets prosecuted by the Justice Department, his Bar Association will act.

[specious_reasons]

I had already read the executive summary. It's functionally the same as the report that was released immediately after the final hearing. It's been formatted, cleaned up and possibly lightly edited, but the essential content is the same.

I'm into the rest of the document, and there's just a lot more detail. The executive summary is probably enough for most people. In fact, for most people, watching the public hearings would be enough. I'd say the executive summary reinforces what the public hearing revealed, and the full report is piling on details.

One thing I don't understand - why isn't John Eastman being disbarred? He's the lawyer who came up with the intentionally false legal theory that the Vice President can reject the electoral vote - the thing that Trump was pressuring Pence to do on Jan 6th. Eastman knew that interpretation of the Constitution was false, but he was hoping that if Pence did it, it would give them the opportunity to introduce the fake electors and steal the election.

I mean literally steal the election. After the selection of the electors, Biden was lawfully elected the President. After that point, Trump resorted to criminal behavior to disrupt that process, and Eastman assisted. Eastman even knew this,

Days afterward, Eastman sent an email to Giuliani, making a
request that tacitly acknowledged just how much trouble he was in: “I’ve
decided that I should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works.”

Maybe if he actually gets prosecuted by the Justice Department, his Bar Association will act.

[LarsMac]

Originally Posted by specious_reasons

I had already read the executive summary. It's functionally the same as the report that was released immediately after the final hearing. It's been formatted, cleaned up and possibly lightly edited, but the essential content is the same.

I'm into the rest of the document, and there's just a lot more detail. The executive summary is probably enough for most people. In fact, for most people, watching the public hearings would be enough. I'd say the executive summary reinforces what the public hearing revealed, and the full report is piling on details.

One thing I don't understand - why isn't John Eastman being disbarred? He's the lawyer who came up with the intentionally false legal theory that the Vice President can reject the electoral vote - the thing that Trump was pressuring Pence to do on Jan 6th. Eastman knew that interpretation of the Constitution was false, but he was hoping that if Pence did it, it would give them the opportunity to introduce the fake electors and steal the election.

I mean literally steal the election. After the selection of the electors, Biden was lawfully elected the President. After that point, Trump resorted to criminal behavior to disrupt that process, and Eastman assisted. Eastman even knew this,

Maybe if he actually gets prosecuted by the Justice Department, his Bar Association will act.

I had to read up on his involvement. After doing so, I can only hope that there will be a follow up by the Justice Dpt. I would not be surprised to hear that T-rump's own legal beagels might try to lay the blame on Eastman for the whole thing, claiming that it was his advice that led them down that path.
"Had we known that he was lying to us, we wouldn't have taken that trip."

I never really cared much for the Former VP. but to his credit, he almost single handed put the kabosh on the plan to steal the election. They might have pulled it off, if he had fallen in line. IT could have been days or weeks before any opposition could have been able to organize and by then, it's possible that it would have been too late, and we could have had a civil war on our hands.

[viscousmemories]

I'm a fan of the theory that Pence absolutely would have played ball if he thought they could get away with it, he just didn't believe they could.

[LarsMac]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

I'm a fan of the theory that Pence absolutely would have played ball if he thought they could get away with it, he just didn't believe they could.

I think that you are right. He more than likely chickened out. And now he is a minor hero in the story.
He gets to use that "It went against every thing that I stand for." line in his coming POTUS campaign.

The conservative Rethuglicans will eat that up.

[specious_reasons]

Originally Posted by LarsMac

I think that you are right. He more than likely chickened out. And now he is a minor hero in the story.

You know what? I'll take it. Let Pence have the credit for refusing the obviously stupid and criminal plan that would make him a monster in the history books. I don't like or trust the man any more, but I'm willing to praise him for upholding the US Constitution.

Originally Posted by LarsMac

He gets to use that "It went against every thing that I stand for." line in his coming POTUS campaign.
The conservative Rethuglicans will eat that up.

Some may, but there's a sizeable minority in the Republican party that has decided that fascism is the only way they're going to retain power in the future. You can call them MAGA Republicans or just white nationalists, they're never voting for Pence again.

[LarsMac]

Originally Posted by specious_reasons

You know what? I'll take it. Let Pence have the credit for refusing the obviously stupid and criminal plan that would make him a monster in the history books. I don't like or trust the man any more, but I'm willing to praise him for upholding the US Constitution.

Some may, but there's a sizeable minority in the Republican party that has decided that fascism is the only way they're going to retain power in the future. You can call them MAGA Republicans or just white nationalists, they're never voting for Pence again.

I agree. The MAGA's will leave him at the bus stop. Though he will have a following of some conservatives, chances are whatever is left of the old line Republicans will see too much of Trump in his past, and look for another Conservative. The Religious Right, who embraced T will have to work a lot harder to get that smell off their clothes. Mike might be able to appeal to them. They may stick with Donald just because he still claims to have been "Born Again" and they hate to be wrong.
I remain hopeful that T is officially disqualified and sent to jail before the Primaries begin next year.

But, listening to the locals around here, it seems that he will get their votes, even if he is locked up.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Pence had a history of folding like a house of cards. He was the governor who almost went down in history as losing Indiana the Indy 500 over a gay marriage cake law.

[LarsMac]

I think that Pence's chances are very poor for 2024.
The MAGAs will see him as a turncoat, and the republican leadership will just see him as the ragged banner of a bad time in history.
Some of the Xtian Right might appreciate his religious beliefs, but they will also see the Judas in his failure to act "as his King commanded"

Hopefully, he will just slink away into the night.

[BrotherMan]

Even the forum is so mad it made me say it twice.

[BrotherMan]

I'm not giving any of those fuckers any damn credit for being a stopped clock by accident.

When it came time to hold people accountable all of them aligned themselves against the rule of law and wanted to point fingers everywhere else except at the fuckers responsible for making it happen.

[specious_reasons]

Originally Posted by BrotherMan

I'm not giving any of those fuckers any damn credit for being a stopped clock by accident.

When it came time to hold people accountable all of them aligned themselves against the rule of law and wanted to point fingers everywhere else except at the fuckers responsible for making it happen.

You know, the more I read, I think Pence was determined to do the right thing, even at the expense of the hatred of Trump and his fans. This wasn't him being accidental or cowardly:

Every four years, on January 6th, vice presidents read from a script that remains essentially unchanged. Eastman’s theory of the Vice President’s power and the Trump Campaign’s scheme to convene and submit the slates of “alternate” (fake) electors motivated Vice President Pence and his advisors to alter the script and to make sure they were prepared to respond to any unexpected actions in the joint session.

Vice President Pence met with the Senate Parliamentarian on January 3rd to discuss the joint session and revised the joint session scripts in consultation with her office.274 Vice President Pence and the Parliamentarian agreed that the Vice President’s role is ministerial.

I am willing to give the appropriate credit to Pence for this. He stayed true to his oath to uphold the US Constitution, and he was proactive in upholding it.

[lisarea]

Supposedly, it was Dan Quayle who convinced Pence not to go along with it.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Gawd. Vice Presidents Dumb and Dumber.

[Ari]

Time Cop V: To prevent the coup of 2021 Time Officers are sent back to the 1990s to convince one man Potato ends in an e…

[Ari]

In a late Christmas present, twice impeached man who certainly learned his lesson the first time has shown he’s learned about running third party if he fails to get the republican nomination.

Trump Promotes Article Supporting Him to Run as Third-Party Candidate – Rolling Stone

[LarsMac]

Originally Posted by Ari

In a late Christmas present, twice impeached man who certainly learned his lesson the first time has shown he’s learned about running third party if he fails to get the republican nomination.

Trump Promotes Article Supporting Him to Run as Third-Party Candidate – Rolling Stone

Hmmm, I think that I'd actually like to see that. Well, unless he were to end up in jail first. I'd probably pay to see THAT.

[Sock Puppet]

They got Al Capone with tax evasion. Admittedly, it was a different era, but then again, Capone was a lot smarter than Trump.

[specious_reasons]

Still reading the Jan 6th final report, I might want to search out some of the individual interviews from some of the primary witnesses, but Jesus this whole thing makes me mad. I can only read it in chunks.

Just fucking furious. Once Dec 14th happened and the electors were selected, Biden was legally the next President. No effort to change that result was legal. At the time, I thought the matter was resolved, but I underestimated the enormity of Trump's lawlessness.

[specious_reasons]

vBulletin thinks I'm twice as furious.