Voter fraud vs. voter *registration* fraud

[LadyShea]

I am still trying to figure out how a man dropping off ballots makes one fear for their life.

[BrotherMan]

Didn't you see the video, Shea? The MAN was BROWN. You know how those people act around ballots.

[Zehava]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

Mr. Pee used a utility bill, I used a monthly credit union statement, and things went smoothly. Those jacked up wingnut hags who harassed Lisa back in 2012 were nowhere to be seen. The City and County of Juggalonia got it right -- this time.

WTF those don't even have a photo on them. How in the hell does that prove you are who you say you are?

For all the fuck that those manning the polling office know you could have picked those up off the ground or pulled them out of somebody's garbage. Hell you could have printed them out yourself.

Fuck I could fly to Juggalonia, rummage through some garbage to find some "ID" and present myself to the correct polling office and vote. Seems to me, unless there is more verification than what you are presenting, that this process makes vote fraud EASIER not harder.

[lisarea]

That'd involve risking some serious criminal charges for the reward of possibly gaining one extra vote, though. And for all the time, effort, and money the Republicans have put into trying to uncover this sort of thing happening because they don't require photo ID, they've failed miserably.

And the extra funny part is that we have mail in ballots here, which would be even easier to steal and to vote without getting caught. Weirdly, though, the proponents of requiring photo IDs never seem to mention that.

And in 2012, when I got harassed for using my utility bill as ID to vote in person, we were getting MULTIPLE mail in ballots for people who haven't lived her for years, despite my having informed them multiple times.

It would have been the easiest thing in the world for us to just fill out and mail those ballots, or if we'd thrown them away, for someone to pull them out of our trash.

[Kael]

I've heard local wingnuts complain about mail-in ballots, including one guy who was hilariously livid. Obviously he'd only just now discovered their existence and decided they were the Greatest Injustice in the world.

[Zehava]

I'm not saying it would be worth it, but if all you have to do is present a utility bill or bank statement to ID yourself the it's not really an effective voter ID law is it?

It's hardly better than simply walking into the polling office and claiming to be somebody. You don't have to present your voter registration card?

[Janet]

We require more than that to get a library card.

[LadyShea]

It's hardly better than simply walking into the polling office and claiming to be somebody. You don't have to present your voter ID card?

How it works here is that every registered voter's name and address is in a book at our specified polling place (we do not have early voting, or voting kiosks at the mall, or any of that), and whatever ID-photo, utility bill, etc.- we present has to match the name and address, and is noted in the book while witnessed by multiple neighbors.

So not only would one have to register ahead of time (2 weeks? Can't remember) under the false name with the false address, or verify the actual resident is a registered voter, they would have to then create or find a utility bill with the name and address of the registered voter, and then hope that the actual voter doesn't show up to vote before they do. It would be a really inefficient way to commit voter fraud.

[Ensign Steve]

Dude, according to our sample ballot, we don't even have to show any ID at all. There are a few rare circumstances where we have to, like if I didn't provide my SSN when I registered, but even in that case we can cast a provisional ballot. My mind was blown by the number of circumstances under which we can post provisional ballots, for example if I want to vote at a different polling place than my own.

I <3 California.

[LadyShea]

I may have been mistaken, looks like one can fill out a provisional ballot unless specifically deemed ineligible to vote by officials.

[Janet]

California is pretty awesome. I miss getting sample ballots with the pro and con on proposals in the mail. That doesn't happen in Michigan. I haven't followed much about voter ID law here. We don't have early voting and they ask for my driver's license when I vote. I know some years ago they passed a stupid illegal immigrant panic law requiring the Secretary of State to check citizenship when you renewed your license. So we all had to go in person instead of renewing by mail, which was annoying. Still, I took an OK picture so that's not too bad.

[LadyShea]

I miss getting sample ballots with the pro and con on proposals in the mail.

Me too, we had that in Nevada. We get NOTHING in the mail here. We have to get it online, or maybe the Post Office, or just show up and hope for the best like most people do.

[Janet]

We have League of Women Voters Guides people can pick up at the library, but they don't cover any local races or ballot proposals. Since we have 6 proposals to change the city charter, I could really do with some discussion of it. I did learn today that two mayors I dislike are against Proposal 1, so I'll probably be voting for it.

[Dingfod]

We have to show state-issued photo ID or a passport. I'm going to make it fun for them, I'm using my passport.

[The Man]

Greg Palast has a massive exposé on Al Jazeera America about recent attempts at voter suppression. I haven't read it yet (I'm about to go to bed) but his past reporting on this topic has been groundbreaking so it's undoubtedly worth reading.

[The Man]

Well, we can console ourselves with the fact that this probably wasn't a fair election anyway, so maybe the American people aren't as horrible as they seem

Election Day Loser: the 'American Voters' | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community

Voting rights watchdogs say election 2014 marked the most "unfair, confusing, and discriminatory election landscape" in fifty years

[Ari]

Oops wrong thread.
Um... fuck politicians!

[Dingfod]

It'll only get worse.

[The Man]

I Was Arrested for Voting | American Civil Liberties Union

[The Man]

[JoeP]

Thank you for explaining what crosscheck purge lists are so I don't have to go and searching the web like a bloody farmer.

* JoeP shows middle finger to The Man in a non-ironic way

Jim Crow returns | Al Jazeera America which you already posted but what am I supposed to read everything you link to

[JoeP]

The page has a "check your name" against the purge lists tool - VA and GA only, but includes crosschecks from those states with others. I trust all y'all will do that.

Wake me up if anyone hears of a lawsuit from someone with good evidence they were disenfranchised.

[The Man]

Alabama Enacts Voter ID Law, Just Happens to Close DMVs Where Black People Live

Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

[The Man]

John Oliver discusses voting rights.

Last Week Tonight - Voting

One thing I was not aware of until I watched this video is how much actual voter fraud exists within our legislatures. For people engaged in such activities to suggest draconian requirements to address an event (i.e., voter impersonation) that affects single-digit numbers of voters among literally billions of votes cast over the years is just a stunning level of hypocrisy.

I’ve been shirking my duties in updating this thread, and for that I apologise. I should note that it’s been estimated by some sources that roughly five million votes were disappeared from the 2012 election, and that if Obama’s victory hadn’t been so overwhelming it would likely have swung the election to Rmoney. (This is also quite likely to have been the source of Karl Rove’s “math you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better”, though it’s been speculated that if Anonymous hadn’t intervened, the fraud would have been even more widespread).

[lisarea]

OK SO NOW.

My best friend's son is 18, and this is his first time voting. First, they somehow fucked up his registration the first time--lost it or something, I guess--then, after he re-registered, he finally got his ballot, filled it out, and dropped it off, and it got rejected because the signature was wrong somehow. What the fuck does that even mean? Wrong compared to what?

So tomorrow, I'm hoping he'll agree to let me take him down there in person and sort it out. But what the fuck is happening? This is an 18 year old, trying to vote, and they've fucked it up for him twice so far. He's got school AND work, and he's having to make some pretty extraordinary efforts to vote, and I am fucking livid. Chances are good that we'll manage to get his vote counted, but how many other people are they doing this to who don't have a bunch of meddling old people making sure that he follows through?

Now I a) have to go find out how I get records of things like this, and b) have to volunteer to work the elections from now on to see in person what they're doing and stop them ahead of time.

This is incredibly fucked up and very very fishy. What the hell is a bad signature and who is deciding that?

Oh, yeah, and there was a weird thing that happened last week or so where the post office accidentally returned people's correctly addressed ballots to them. They still had time to resubmit them, but who knows if they all bothered, and if that happened later in the process, those votes would have been irretrievably lost.

So I'm going to go full White Lady for this particular kid, and go down there with the phone numbers for voter suppression hotlines and stuff, but I want to know how many other people are having this happen to them. This is a whole fucking lot of work for one vote.

Fuckers. Fucking motherfuckers.