The origins of the universe

[Malloch]

I've been watching Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman. I watched the episode on the Big Bang etc. Now I'm neither stupid, uneducated or unimaginative, but alot of the theories see utter bullshit to me. Too much well i think this FAR OUT idea might work, but only if I rape all known laws of physics and einsteins corpse. Granted my knowledge of quantum mechanics is limited. Anyone else understand what I mean?

[Iacchus]

Does it really matter? You'll have to scroll down to find the bit about Max Planck.

[ZEZOZE]

it's just nerdy poetry to explain away what we can't possibly know and what really doesn't matter.

[Malloch]

I understand it doesn't really matter, and I care more because it's another explaination besides what the fundies give us, but it boils down to that science can't do any better.

[ZEZOZE]

because nothing can explain the unfathomable.

[Iacchus]

Yeah, but how is it that we know anything at all? Where does knowledge come from? Do we just imagine that reality is real? Or, is there something else there telling us it's real? It certainly doesn't work by virtue of our imagination alone, does it?

[ZEZOZE]

you can know anything you want to. the unexplainable part is why you want to do that in the first place. most animals simply experience their being as is dictated by the nature of their instincts. why we need to know more about what isn't even here is beyond me...and you...and us.

[Malloch]

I guess my issue is with the fact that they changed so much to make the theory work. Like suddenly declaring that there are instead of 3 dimensions, there are 10 plus time. Its like they are willing to disregard what they were telling us was immutable is now not. Just because it makes their theory work

[Iacchus]

Knowledge doesn't exist without a source, or the means (outside of our imagination) to recognize it.

[Iacchus]

Originally Posted by Malloch

I guess my issue is with the fact that they changed so much to make the theory work. Like suddenly declaring that there are instead of 3 dimensions, there are 10 plus time. Its like they are willing to disregard what they were telling us was immutable is now not. Just because it makes their theory work

It's too bad I didn't watch it. Of course that's one thing nice about the Discovery Channel. You can always catch a repeat. Or, was it The Learning Channel?

[Deadlokd]

I haven't seen the show but I follow (those that I can) all the latest theories as published by New Scientist. The common theme is that at the moment of the Big Bang or the Big Crunch or what have you, the Laws of physics were different/not relevant/superseded. Whatever the case I am willing to believe a bunch of physicists will work it out, one idea at a time. And that they're a hell of a lot closer to the truth than the Creation mythologies.

Iacchus, I don't know why I'm responding to you but......knowledge matters. That should be enough.

[Malloch]

Originally Posted by Deadlokd

I haven't seen the show but I follow (those that I can) all the latest theories as published by New Scientist. The common theme is that at the moment of the Big Bang or the Big Crunch or what have you, the Laws of physics were different/not relevant/superseded. Whatever the case I am willing to believe a bunch of physicists will work it out, one idea at a time. And that they're a hell of a lot closer to the truth than the Creation mythologies.

Iacchus, I don't know why I'm responding to you but......knowledge matters. That should be enough.

It was on the science channel. I guess I have enough of a grasp of quantum mechanics to be confused. I've just gotten around to understanding some of these things, and they go and change them on me.

[Iacchus]

Originally Posted by ITSOZAZ

because nothing can explain the unfathomable.

It's only unexplainable if it "just happens."

[Iacchus]

Originally Posted by Deadlokd

Iacchus, I don't know why I'm responding to you but......knowledge matters. That should be enough.

Don't waste your time. Really ...

[Deadlokd]

Originally Posted by Malloch

It was on the science channel. I guess I have enough of a grasp of quantum mechanics to be confused. I've just gotten around to understanding some of these things, and they go and change them on me.

I live in Australia and don't have Pay-TV either.

I don't get the mega dimensions. I can almost wrap my mind around the concept then it skitters out of reach. I wonder if they're pulling shit out of their asses too, changing the rules to suit their theories, but like I said, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Malloch]

Originally Posted by Deadlokd

I live in Australia and don't have Pay-TV either.

I don't get the mega dimensions. I can almost wrap my mind around the concept then it skitters out of reach. I wonder if they're pulling shit out of their asses too, changing the rules to suit their theories, but like I said, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I am as well to a degree. One argument stated that the big bang started when our universe collided with another, causing the singularity to expand. Or at least creating the singularity. I liked the episode about black holes better as I could understand the reasoning better.

[LadyShea]

I have the exact opposite problem. I watch How the Universe Works, and What Time Is It and Into the Universe with Stephen Hawking and other similar shows and for some reason it all "feels right" though I can't explain the theories or even comprehend the math.

It's like those people for whom creationism seems more intuitive...I feel more comfortable with a Universe we have a difficult time explaining/understanding (especially given the very short amount of time humans have been able to even see even a tiny portion of what's out there, and that tiny portion is mind blowing)

11 Dimensions? Great! Strings and Branes? Bring 'em on! "All of existence" should be damn complex and hard to grasp.

[Deadlokd]

I prefer a Big Bounce to a Big Bang but I'm also liking this idea of multiple universes contained within black holes. Even if the actual physics escapes me.

[Ohm]

Originally Posted by Malloch

I understand it doesn't really matter, and I care more because it's another explaination besides what the fundies give us, but it boils down to that science can't do any better.

I rather fall back on evidence for theories that are fundamental in physics, then none at all. Understanding the laws helps.Counter intuitive as some may be, these laws are true (E=mc^2 or e=hv). I recommend not putting all the weight on TV programs and ask expects in the field, or better yet buy textbooks and learn to understand how the laws work.

[Malloch]

Originally Posted by Ohm

I rather fall back on evidence for theories that are fundamental in physics, then none at all. Understanding the laws helps.Counter intuitive as some may be, these laws are true (E=mc^2 or e=hv). I recommend not putting all the weight on TV programs and ask expects in the field, or better yet buy textbooks and learn to understand how the laws work.

I've been busy killing brain cells trying to learn more about this stuff.

[Ohm]

Originally Posted by Malloch

I've been busy killing brain cells trying to learn more about this stuff.

Are you interested in the material?

[Malloch]

Originally Posted by Ohm

Are you interested in the material?

Very. Though unlike my wife, my knowledge of physics doesn't go past ballistics.

[Ohm]

Originally Posted by Malloch

Very. Though unlike my wife, my knowledge of physics doesn't go past ballistics.

That's great. You should have no problem. But I do understand what you mean. Example, multiverses. Its a little abstract.

[beyelzu]

The Teaching Company: Temporary Out of Service

This one is excellent and gives a fine understanding to the layperson or an introduction to cosmology.

Join the exciting search for these mysterious phenomena in Dark Matter, Dark Energy: The Dark Side of the Universe, a mind-expanding, 24-lecture course taught by Dr. Sean Carroll, a theoretical physicist with a profound knowledge of the field. Starting with the early 20th-century work of Albert Einstein in theoretical physics and Edwin Hubble in observational astronomy, Dr. Carroll takes you through the key concepts of this revolutionary view of an expanding universe, concepts which have brought us—for the first time in history—to the brink of knowing what the universe is made of.

Welcome to the Dark Side

Everything you see with your eyes and with powerful instruments—stars, planets, galaxies, dust, and gas—and everything that you think of as atom-based matter is only 5% of what we now know exists. The rest is what Dr. Carroll calls the "dark sector," which consists of the following:

* Dark matter: First proposed in the 1930s, the idea that there is missing mass influencing the behavior of galaxies began to look more and more likely from the 1970s on. We know that it is matter because we can detect its gravitational influence on visible matter, but we cannot see it. An inventory of the distribution of dark matter throughout space shows that it constitutes 25% of the energy density of the universe.
* Dark energy: The greatest discoveries are the unexpected ones, which was the case in the late 1990s when two teams of astronomers competing to measure the rate at which the expansion of the universe is slowing down (as virtually everyone thought it must be) discovered that it is speeding up instead. A previously unknown, all-pervasive dark energy must be at work, representing 70% of the energy density of the universe.

you could probably find a torrent of the audio or wait for it to go on sale, that happens a good bit. the one on superstring theory is pretty good as well.

[yguy]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

It's like those people for whom creationism seems more intuitive...I feel more comfortable with a Universe we have a difficult time explaining/understanding

Is there anything intuitive about a universe that's incomprehensible, or only comprehensible through the dispensations of the Illumined Ones?