Ye tak' th' poond an' we'll tak' th' oil.

[JoeP]

Just over 2 months until Scotland votes on independence. Opinion polls suggested it will be defeated narrowly, which will be messy and unhappy for all. (But at least provide some continued argument against pernicious centralisation of government.)

Which way should the Scots vote?

And what would happen if they voted for independence?

[JoeP]

If ye want tae post in Scots, use th' wee translatur ower haur.

[Watser?]

E'en if th' Scotts lae th' UK, they'll bide in th' EU. They main e'en joint th' eurozain. Sae meh, either way is braw by me.

Th' translatur doesnae seem tae dae capital letters.

[erimir]

Shouldn't non-Tory Englishers be really opposed to this?

I assume that Scottish voters help keep the Tories from getting too powerful... without Scottish voters, who generally hate the Tories, won't England and Wales be overrun?

[JoeP]

D'ye have a reference fur that? OK that's enough.

I can't tell if "staying in" the EU is automatic. It's possible that it is, and all the doom is just politics from the almost-entirely-negative No campaign.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by JoeP

And what would happen if they voted for independence?

What currency would an independent Scotland use?
Would an independent Scotland become part of the EU? Automatically, fast-track, or as fast as Turkey? Would they want to?
Would there be border controls?
What would the Union Flag look like?
What would happen to the UK's nuclear weapons in Scotland?
Who gets to keep Hogwarts?

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by erimir

Shouldn't non-Tory Englishers be really opposed to this?

I assume that Scottish voters help keep the Tories from getting too powerful... without Scottish voters, who generally hate the Tories, won't England and Wales be overrun?

Maybe that's why the No campaign has been so pathetic. Maybe Cameron really wants independence. And is prepared to go down in history as the man who destroyed the Union, but ensured Conservative dominance in Westminster for several elections.

[Watser?]

I think they already said they want to stay in the EU. I think they could probably join on a really fast track, you could argue that they are already in the EU and there is a reverse precedent: when Germany was reunited they automatically became part of the EU, even though they would never have qualified. I'm pretty sure the same thing would happen with Northern Cyprus if they reunited.
And I also seem to remember someone saying the nukes would become English, Scotland doesn't want them. Same as what happened with the USSR's nukes: Ukraine and Kazachstan renounced them, I don't think there were any left in any of the other federal republics at the time.

The x-shaped cross is the Scottish contribution to the Union Jack.

[JoeP]

Some considerations analysed here: If Scotland votes “yes”: Dear Prime Minister and First Minister… | The Economist

[Janet]

I think they would stay in the EU. Sometimes I think frustration over English Euro-skepticism is one of the things that will drive some of them to vote less. Not that I know a lot about the subject, but that's what I've picked up on from articles. Isn't it mostly England that's Euro-skeptic with the rest of the union Euro-positive?

[godfry n. glad]

[quote=JoeP;1195959]

Originally Posted by JoeP

And what would happen if they voted for independence?

What currency would an independent Scotland use?

I would expect something like sheep ear-tags or bagpipe chanter reeds.

Would an independent Scotland become part of the EU? Automatically, fast-track, or as fast as Turkey? Would they want to?

I think the correct form of that question is "Will the EU want Scotland?" I think this is finally a chance for the continentals to choke off the all too voluminous flow of haggis from Caledonia.

Would there be border controls?

One would hope so...We can't have that border floating all over the place...it might just allow York and the Lake District to be apprehended by the Scots.

What would the Union Flag look like?

More blood, less guts?

What would happen to the UK's nuclear weapons in Scotland?

Nuclear weapons..."The English didn't leave any nuclear weapons. Just what did they look like?"

Who gets to keep Hogwarts?

See now....I didn't even know that the Scots had some kind of claim on Hogwarts. I think that the faculty and staff of Hogwarts should decide their fate and magic it into being. Mayhaps they should move to Poland?

[Watser?]

Originally Posted by Janet

I think they would stay in the EU. Sometimes I think frustration over English Euro-skepticism is one of the things that will drive some of them to vote less. Not that I know a lot about the subject, but that's what I've picked up on from articles. Isn't it mostly England that's Euro-skeptic with the rest of the union Euro-positive?

Not sure, but that's the general impression I have too: that the Scotts are much more open to Europe, much like the Irish (who even joined the Eurozone). And Joe's article says Salmond has already said he wants to join the EU and NATO and to tell the UK nuke subs to clear off.

[JoeP]

Yup, the Scots are much more keen on the EU than England. In fact, the success of the UKXP has been tipped to sway some Scots towards voting for independence, a 2 or 3% swing.

But Manuel Barroso and Claude Juncker (or however they spell their names) are on record as being opaquely negative about Scotland automatically getting membership. In fact I don't think there will be a problem, it's just that all politicians hate the idea of any area seceding, and issues like the Basque country in Spain are particularly sensitive.

[Janet]

Now that I think about it, there is a historic alliance between Scotland and France against the English. I would expect France to back their entry into the EU.

[Watser?]

Basque Country and Catalonia. Plus Corsica in France. Lega Nord in Italy. Belgium could split. So yeah, some countries may want to discourage their own separatists.

Personally I don't care if all of them secede but stay within the EU. It would make EU even more expensive with even more languages is the only disadvantage.

[ceptimus]

I don't think the Scottish Nationalists really want a yes vote; they don't want to lose all the subsidies Scotland currently gets from England. What they would like is a no vote but by a narrow margin so they can use that as a political lever to extract even more subsidies in future - and that's most likely the vote they will get.

With luck, there will be some political scandal or other major event just before the referendum that tips Scotland into voting yes. I shall then enjoy watching the Scottish Nationalists squirm.

[slimshady2357]

I thought there was a recent(ish) example of a country separating and NOT getting automatically into the EU. Was it Estonia? Took something like 13 years?

[Dragar]

There's mickle chance for independence, I think at this point; support seems to have heavily waned. It'll probably be a closer run thing than people imagine, and I'm sure it will lead to greater powers for Scotland.

The biggest reason this is happening is that we have a Conservative government for the UK, but Scotland leans much more to the left. I believe there's only a single Tory MP in Scotland, and everyone is rather embarrassed about it.

There's lots I miss about Scotland, and the much more sane Scots Law, and a more engaged, left-leaning political class is at least part of it.

I really hope Scotland doesn't go independent, because what would be left of the UK would shift dramatically to to the right and we'd be stuck with a Tory government for the next 20+ years. But given how poorly represented Scotland is by current government policies, it's not entirely clear it would be bad politically or socially for them. (Economically is a different matter.) If I were living up there now, I'd be pretty torn on my vote.

[Ensign Steve]

I don't think the UK will allow it to happen because if they do Andy Murray won't be British anymore.

Or will he? I have no idea how that works.

[JoeP]

He'll be British but he won't be a UK citizen. It will just make "GB" an even less representative sporting entity (already used as the label for the UK, even Northern Irish sportspeople).

[Janet]

Except in football (soccer). I don't entirely understand why they all have separate teams for football, but they do.

[ChuckF]

Ooooh. The pound. I just figured that out. I was all "the pond??? WHAT POND???"

[Clutch Munny]

Maybe the English would actually have to grow up and vote for someone other than the Conservatives, if they couldn't count on the Scots to exercise a little conscience at the ballot box.

[Stormlight]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

Ooooh. The pound. I just figured that out. I was all "the pond??? WHAT POND???"

God, even I got that. You must be really, really stupid.

[Watser?]

There's a moose loose in the hoose!