How does one determine God exists?

[Iacchus]

How does one go about determining God exists? Any ideas?

[Doctor X]

Ask a child drowning in her own secretions.

--J.D.

[Ohm]

Originally Posted by Iacchus

How does one go about determining God exists? Any ideas?

You can't, either you do or you don't, really.
but here's a clue, anythings a go in the supernatural realm.

I'm interested to hear others opinions without any bashing please.

[seebs]

What do you mean by "determining"?

[Deadlokd]

Same way I determine this chocolate (yes, I'm eating chocolate and it is good) exists. I can sense it with all five senses. Not saying that I want to taste god, but you get the idea.

[Iacchus]

Originally Posted by Deadlokd

Same way I determine this chocolate (yes, I'm eating chocolate and it is good) exists. I can sense it with all five senses. Not saying that I want to taste god, but you get the idea.

Oh, so you can sense it with the five senses huh? Okay, so who or what is it that does the sensing? Obviously there's a bit more to it than just the five senses, correct? How about the notion that 1 + 1 = 2? How do your five senses tell you that? Notwithstanding that it may require someone else to explain it to you (via "another mind") but, once you understand, it pretty much becomes intrinsic, does it not?

[Iacchus]

Okay, class dismissed.

[Doctor X]

--J.D.

[Iacchus]

Flunked, how so? I know that 1 + 1 = 2, and you can even grade me on it. Or, what part of the quiz didn't you understand?

[Doctor X]

--J.D.

[Iacchus]

You are a real riot man, aren't you? Enter Dionysus:



The pirates (of Tyre) were wholly unsuspecting but, at least he was kind enough to turn them into dolphins ... a little bit more classier way to kick somebody's arse, I would think.

[Kevlar]

Math is just symbols that help us understand reality, numbers represent real (sensory verifiable through peer review) things.

Fact is, there is no evidence that would help us know exactly who or what a god would be. Some religions would say that's exactly the way it's supposed to be.

[Doctor X]

As with Dionysus, if a god or gods exist, such can only be Evil, Incompetent, Irrelevant, or Some Combination of those three.

He is, of course, free to worship that.

--J.D.

Leave Her a voicemail and see if She calls back.

[GodPossessed]

I doubt that anyone who is serious pursuing the question of demonstrating evidence for God would claim to be able to prove God per se. Even if God chose to reveal Himself to someone's senses, the sense's themselves could be questioned. Reality can be questioned. How do I know that I didn't come into existence 2 seconds ago with artificial memories pre-loaded. The field of theological apologetics doesn't seriously attempt a proof like you have in mathematics. It is more of a cumulative case like you would build in a courtroom. That may seem shaky, but the level of proof is sufficient to the degree that we put people in jail or even execute them on it's basis.

To me, it seems clear that one can either believe or disbelieve in God without complete absurdity. The absurdity, to me, is the assertion that this is an unworthy question to ask. Whether there is a God or not has to be the most important thing we ever consider. If theists are wrong, it doesn't matter, but if we are right the stakes are eternal. - Pascal's wager

Did you seriously just post Pascal's bogus wager as an argument?

Oh, this is going to get ugly fast.

[Doctor X]

You do realize that Pascal's wager is it biggest load of fallacious twaddle ever to darken human history until Marx and Norman Mailer?

--J.D.

[Doctor X]

Originally Posted by Uthgar the Brazen

Oh, this is going to get ugly fast.

Fast enough?

--J.D.

[GodPossessed]

do tell

Originally Posted by Doctor X

Fast enough?

--J.D.

Not really there yet. When the hysterical laughter starts, that'll pretty much herald the end.

[GodPossessed]

Is there an argument or just ridicule?

[Iacchus]

Originally Posted by Kevlar

Math is just symbols that help us understand reality, numbers represent real (sensory verifiable through peer review) things.

This still doesn't tell us who or, what is doing the verifying. Are you saying that 1 + 1 = 2 is not acknowledgeable then?

Fact is, there is no evidence that would help us know exactly who or what a god would be.

Fact? What is a fact, without the means of acknowledging it?

Some religions would say that's exactly the way it's supposed to be.

Which, I suppose, if its tenets were in order, then it wouldn't amount to much harm to accept it. But, that's all you're accepting, that particular religion, not God.

[Iacchus]

Originally Posted by GodPossessed

To me, it seems clear that one can either believe or disbelieve in God without complete absurdity.

That's fair enough. My point is that unless you can determine God exists, as intrinsically as you know that 1 + 1 = 2, then it is not possible to know God exists, ever. However, there is hope, in the that it is possible to know things intrinsically. This is what needs to be examined.

[Doctor X]

So should we worship the Evil deity?

Irrelevant deity?

--J.D.

Originally Posted by GodPossessed

Is there an argument or just ridicule?

For a gambit that is so misused and long-ago shown to be riddled with holes, probably just (deserved) ridicule.

Wikipedia saves me the effort of yet again pointing out where that line of reasoning completely fails.