A revolution in thought

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Maybe not you, but many people are affected by adverse criticism and they will do anything to ward it off...

And then there are others who desperately seek it out.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

This is the 50's rape culture attitude that was mentioned before. You can't even see what is wrong with this paragraph, can you?

No I don't.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

No I don't.

Then you can't understand my disgust at Lessans take on this subject and will be equally confused when others express the same disgust.

As Vivisectus mentioned in this thread, you and Lessans consider sex a currency. Re-read the study you yourself posted, you missed the key findings.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Vivisectus

Ah, regular programming resumes with:

Disagreement = misunderstanding, Go and read the book again till you understand/agree with it.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Then you can't understand my disgust at Lessans take on this subject and will be equally confused when others express the same disgust.

As Vivisectus mentioned in this thread, you and Lessans consider sex a currency. Re-read the study you yourself posted, you missed the key findings.

Tell me what I missed if you're so sure I'm wrong. Sex is not being used as a means of bartering (i.e., you give me this, I'll give you that). Help me understand where sex is used in this way because this is your accusation. Defend it. Sex may be used as a means of exchange in today's world, but not in the new world. Your disgust is due to your ignorance on this topic.

cur·ren·cy [kur-uhn-see, kuhr-] Show IPA
noun, plural cur·ren·cies.
1.
something that is used as a medium of exchange; money.
2.
general acceptance; prevalence; vogue.
3.
a time or period during which something is widely accepted and circulated.
4.
the fact or quality of being widely accepted and circulated from person to person.
5.
circulation, as of coin.

[Vivisectus]

Hey look, some of the competition:

Reality Revealed, The Theory of Multidimensional Reality by Douglas Vogt

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Sex is not being used as a means of bartering (i.e., you give me this, I'll give you that)

Originally Posted by peacegirl

because a boy and girl would never encourage someone to have sex unless they knew they could commit

Is this not exchanging sex for commitment? Lessans says many times that "males" will commit to women because it will be their only way to get sex, never mentioning the other benefits of commitment or reasons people might want to make a committment.

[thedoc]

Lessans also said that the girl will "give in" to sex with a boy just for that commitment.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Is this not exchanging sex for commitment? Lessans says many times that "males" will commit to women because it will be their only way to get sex, never mentioning the other benefits of commitment or reasons people might want to make a committment.

When he said it will be their only way to get sex, he meant that they won't be able (their conscience won't allow them) to have sex with a girl (remember, we're talking about a girl or boy's first sexual experience) with the intention of it being anything more than a quick rendezvous. They can if they want to (who is going to be there to stop them), but how can they want to, knowing that the one who doesn't want the relationship to end will be seriously hurt by them leaving. It seems to me that you are treating sex very lightly, as if there is no danger in a casual meeting between two willing people, but there is a danger when one person falls in love (remember, a young girl or boy's emotions are running high due to this closeness that they have never experienced before), and the other doesn't. In this day and age, people are getting hurt left and right, but in the new world this won't have a chance to occur.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

In this day and age, people are getting hurt left and right.

Do you have any good information to back this up, or is it just something you pulled out of . . . the air.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Is this not exchanging sex for commitment? Lessans says many times that "males" will commit to women because it will be their only way to get sex, never mentioning the other benefits of commitment or reasons people might want to make a committment.

This is not an exchange, I'll give you this (sex) if you give me that (commitment). Remember, there is NO obligation to stay with someone whom a person has no desire to stay with, legal or otherwise. When he said it will be their only way to get sex, he meant that they won't be able (their conscience won't allow them) to have sex with a girl (remember, we're talking about a girl or boy's first sexual experience) with the intention of it being anything more than a quick rendezvous. They can if they want to (who is going to be there to stop them?), but how can they want to, knowing that the one who doesn't want the relationship to end will be seriously hurt by them leaving. It seems to me that you are treating sex very lightly, as if there is no danger in a casual encounter between two willing people, but there is a danger when one person falls in love (remember, a young girl or boy's emotions are running high due to this closeness that they have never experienced before), and the other doesn't. In this day and age, people are getting hurt left and right, but in the new world this won't have a chance to occur.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

This is not an exchange, I'll give you this (sex) if you give me that (commitment). Remember, there is NO obligation to stay with someone whom a person has no desire to stay with, legal or otherwise. When he said it will be their only way to get sex, he meant that they won't be able (their conscience won't allow them) to have sex with a girl (remember, we're talking about a girl or boy's first sexual experience) with the intention of it being anything more than a quick rendezvous. They can if they want to (who is going to be there to stop them?), but how can they want to knowing that the one who doesn't want the relationship to end will be seriously hurt by them leaving. It seems to me that you are treating sex very lightly, as if there is no danger in a casual encounter between two willing people, but there is a danger when one person falls in love (remember, a young girl or boy's emotions are running high due to this closeness that they have never experienced before), and the other doesn't. In this day and age, people are getting hurt left and right, but in the new world this won't have a chance to occur.

Risk factors for suicide in teenagers include:

Access to guns
Family member who committed suicide
History of hurting themselves on purpose
History of being neglected or abused
Living in communities where there have been recent outbreaks of suicide in young people
Romantic breakup


Suicide and suicidal behavior: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

[peacegirl]

This might interest people since it's neuro-science discussing the brain and why they don't believe there is any free will.

My Brain Made Me Do It: Neuroscience and Free...

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Lessans says many times . . . .

See, this is your problem. You're relying on what Lessans said and completely disregarding what he meant. As we know from past discussions in this here thread, what Lessans meant is all that counts. Further, an inability to divine what Lessans meant, even in cases where what he meant is wholly opposite from what he said, is entirely the fault of the reader. In addition, even though THOU SHALT NOT BLAME, it is A-OK to blame the reader for his or her inability to intuit Lessans' actual meaning because the New World has yet to commence, and in any event all acts of blame by or on behalf of a Lessans are 100% justified, ipso facto.

So yeah, LadyShea. It's all your fault. As usual.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

So yeah, LadyShea. It's all your fault. As usual.

Damn! and I miss out on all the fun, . . again.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

[I]Risk factors for suicide in teenagers include:

Access to guns
Family member who committed suicide
History of hurting themselves on purpose
History of being neglected or abused
Living in communities where there have been recent outbreaks of suicide in young people
Romantic breakup

Any useless statistics or made up figures to go with these factors.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

This is not an exchange, I'll give you this (sex) if you give me that (commitment). Remember, there is NO obligation to stay with someone whom a person has no desire to stay with, legal or otherwise. When he said it will be their only way to get sex, he meant that they won't be able (their conscience won't allow them) to have sex with a girl (remember, we're talking about a girl or boy's first sexual experience) with the intention of it being anything more than a quick rendezvous. They can if they want to (who is going to be there to stop them?), but how can they want to, knowing that the one who doesn't want the relationship to end will be seriously hurt by them leaving. It seems to me that you are treating sex very lightly, as if there is no danger in a casual encounter between two willing people, but there is a danger when one person falls in love (remember, a young girl or boy's emotions are running high due to this closeness that they have never experienced before), and the other doesn't. In this day and age, people are getting hurt left and right, but in the new world this won't have a chance to occur.

What is your definition of "unrequited love" then, and how is it eliminated in the new world? After all, it's possible for someone to develop feelings of love for another, without having sex with them, and not have those feelings returned. You act as if without sex there can be no deep feelings that are one sided.

All you are talking about is someone not getting a commitment after giving sex. In other words, yes, in the new world sex is a currency. You give sex, you get the commitment.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

True, but he explains why criticism is coming to an end which makes it much easier to be oneself. Maybe not you, but many people are affected by adverse criticism and they will do anything to ward it off including dressing a certain way, looking a certain way, fixing one's house a certain way, and doing things in general that society approves of.

LOL, so? People need to simply stop caring what other people think about personal choices that are none of their damned business and don't affect them, and "Voila!" much easier to be oneself.

Srsly, 99.9999999999999999>% of the opinions that exist in this world mean exactly dick to any other individual on Earth, should anyone give a shit what any of them think of their haircut or whatever?

You really are a silly thing.

I'm sorry, you could not have read this chapter carefully. I can't even address this because it shows me that your lack of understanding goes even deeper than I thought.

He and/or you mentioned this lack of criticism in choice of partner more than once (you in the context of why homosexual relationships would be reduced...somehow), so it must have been important to him. Why was it a big deal? Why did he care about other people's opinions of his life mate or whatever so much?

[peacegirl]

[quote=LadyShea;1176425]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

This is not an exchange, I'll give you this (sex) if you give me that (commitment). Remember, there is NO obligation to stay with someone whom a person has no desire to stay with, legal or otherwise. When he said it will be their only way to get sex, he meant that they won't be able (their conscience won't allow them) to have sex with a girl (remember, we're talking about a girl or boy's first sexual experience) with the intention of it being anything more than a quick rendezvous. They can if they want to (who is going to be there to stop them?), but how can they want to, knowing that the one who doesn't want the relationship to end will be seriously hurt by them leaving. It seems to me that you are treating sex very lightly, as if there is no danger in a casual encounter between two willing people, but there is a danger when one person falls in love (remember, a young girl or boy's emotions are running high due to this closeness that they have never experienced before), and the other doesn't. In this day and age, people are getting hurt left and right, but in the new world this won't have a chance to occur.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

What is your definition of "unrequited love" then, and how is it eliminated in the new world? After all, it's possible for someone to develop feelings of love for another, without having sex with them, and not have those feelings returned. You act as if without sex there can be no deep feelings that are one sided.

LadyShea, unrequited love is love that is not returned, and this is most serious when it is a romantic love. Come on, stop playing games with me just to prove that there are other kinds of love, in order to make Lessans wrong.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

All you are talking about is someone not getting a commitment after giving sex. In other words, yes, in the new world sex is a currency. You give sex, you get the commitment.

This is not about expectation. This shows how easy it is to misunderstand a concept, and then come back with an attack. No one is expecting anything whatsoever. If a person wants to have sex with somebody who has fallen head over heals because of the attraction to this person and because the "in love" feeling is growing by leaps and bounds, then have sex with them and leave. No one in the world is stopping them, so what is your issue LadyShea? Definitions are shit, they mean nothing. This only has to do with feelings, and conscience, nothing more. If a guy or girl can justify their actions, then their conscience will be clear. Stop making this a convoluted mess of faulty logic, okay?

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

LOL, so? People need to simply stop caring what other people think about personal choices that are none of their damned business and don't affect them, and "Voila!" much easier to be oneself.

Srsly, 99.9999999999999999>% of the opinions that exist in this world mean exactly dick to any other individual on Earth, should anyone give a shit what any of them think of their haircut or whatever?

You really are a silly thing.

No I'm not a silly "thing" LadyShea. What incredible disrespect you show. It makes me laugh.

I'm sorry, you could not have read this chapter carefully. I can't even address this because it shows me that your lack of understanding goes even deeper than I thought.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

He and/or you mentioned this lack of criticism in choice of partner more than once

Of course I did because criticism plays a huge part in our choices. And lack of criticism will allow us to make choices without this pressure of criticism.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

(you in the context of why homosexual relationships would be reduced...somehow)

What in the world are you talking about LadyShea? I have implied no such thing.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

, so it must have been important to him. Why was it a big deal? Why did he care about other people's opinions of his life mate or whatever so much?

What a total misconception! You are so completely off the beaten track, I can't even begin to converse with you in a logical manner. You are completely blind to any truth if it doesn't fit into your ideology, as ironic as this is, since you believe you are the most open, scientifically inclined person on the planet. This is not working, so why don't you just stop interjecting your opinions into everything I say. That's all they are, opinions, nothing more than that. They mean nothing in so far as this knowledge is concerned, so stop trying to make your opinions appear more than they are.

[thedoc]

Wow! People read the book and Peacegirls posts, take them at face value as meaning what they say, and Peacegirl gets all bent out of shape when people don't take some idiosyncratic meaning, that only Lessans and Peacegirl are aware of. And then Peacegirl takes the replies and stretches the meaning, adds things that aren't there, and totally misconstrues the post into something else. Reading comprehension is not one of Peacegirls strong suits, and I'm not sure that she has any strong suits, with the possible exception of a good imagination for fantasy.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

What the hell are you talking about LadyShea? What is your problem? I have implied no such thing.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

"Homosexual relationships will naturally decline once blame is removed from the environment"

What does blame in the environment have to do with homosexual relationships?

Originally Posted by Lessans

If there are a certain number of homosexual
relationships that remain, no one will judge or criticize these unions
since this is a first blow which can no longer be justified.

Why does criticism even matter in this context? Why was it important enough to be included?

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

What the hell are you talking about LadyShea? What is your problem? I have implied no such thing.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

"Homosexual relationships will naturally decline once blame is removed from the environment"

Originally Posted by LadyShea

What does blame in the environment have to do with homosexual relationships?

How long ago did I write that, and why did I omit this from the book? It was taken completely out of context. Do you think I'm going to answer this, when you twist every single thing I've ever written?

Originally Posted by Lessans

If there are a certain number of homosexual
relationships that remain, no one will judge or criticize these unions
since this is a first blow which can no longer be justified.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Why does criticism even matter in this context? Why was it important enough to be included?

Because people are negatively affected by criticism that is of an unfair nature. LadyShea, you cannot tell me that you read this book. I don't believe you. You wouldn't say the kinds of things you're saying if you did.

crit·i·cism/ˈkritəˌsizəm/
Noun
The expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes.Eg: "he ignored the criticisms of his friends".

[LadyShea]

You are completely blind to any truth if it doesn't fit into your ideology, as ironic as this is, since you believe you are the most open, scientifically inclined person on the planet. Oh well LadyShea. This is not working, so just stop interjecting your opinions. That's all they are, opinions, nothing more than that. They mean nothing in so far as this knowledge is concerned, so stop trying to make your opinions appear more than they are.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

criticism plays a huge part in our choices. And lack of criticism will allow us to make choices without this pressure of criticism.

It doesn't play a "huge part" in my personal choices, or the personal choices of the closest people in my life. I think you and Lessans have an excessive and irrational sensitivity to the criticism of those uninvolved and unaffected by the choices you make.

Why do you assume that others share this excessive sensitivity?