Words You Hate

[wade-w]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Colleague

It just seems like a pretentious way of saying 'co-worker' to me.

A 'co-worker' can be a colleague, but colleagues are not always co-workers. In other words, a co-worker is someone who is employed by the same organization as you, while a colleague is someone who works in the same field.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by wade-w

A 'co-worker' can be a colleague, but colleagues are not always co-workers. In other words, a co-worker is someone who is employed by the same organization as you, while a colleague is someone who works in the same field.

Agreed. liv is your colleague, but not your co-worker, vm.

godfry

[John the Non-Baptist]

Morons have misused "impact" for so long that now I automatically cringe even when it's used correctly.

And there are lot of good vulgar words out there, but I don't like the sound of "shitty."

[AspenMama]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

Definitely a hateworthy word. Definitely.

Yes. Oh yes.

Let me add: preventative.

The ta is so completely unnecessary!

[Goliath]

Over the years, I've really begun to hate the word "presuppose". It's a redundant fucking word...you suppose, you don't presuppose. To borrow a bit from George Carlin: Presuppose is a meaningless fucking term. Given any proposition, and any point in time, you are either supposing the proposition, or not supposing it.

Can't these xian pricks just use the words "suppose" or "assume" like the rest of us?

[Godless Wonder]

Hermeneutics. Always makes me think of a Herman Munster exercise video.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Over the years, I've really begun to hate the word "presuppose". It's a redundant fucking word...you suppose, you don't presuppose. To borrow a bit from George Carlin: Presuppose is a meaningless fucking term. Given any proposition, you are either supposing it, or not supposing it.

You can suppose something after analysis or you can suppose it a priori. AFAIAK, suppose and presuppose mean two different things.

Can't these xian pricks just use the words "suppose" or "assume" like the rest of us?

What the hell? I use that word all the time. Since when is this a Christian thing? Or is it just that any occasion is a good one for you to slam Christians?

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by Godless Wonder

Hermeneutics. Always makes me think of a Herman Munster exercise video.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

You can suppose something after analysis or you can suppose it a priori.

Yes, and regardless, you're supposing. One could also say in the latter case that you're assuming something. Again, "presupposing" is completely and utterly from the department of redundancy department.

What the hell? I use that word all the time.

Really? I've never actually heard anyone (xian or atheist) use it in real life, and I've only seen xians use it online.

Since when is this a Christian thing?

Apparently it's not, unfortunately. Damn.

Or is it just that any occasion is a good one for you to slam Christians?

Not all, although many occasions are. However, that wasn't what this was about.

[Ymir's blood]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Colleague

It just seems like a pretentious way of saying 'co-worker' to me.

As someone employed in state government, I have many colleagues but no co-workers.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by Ymir's blood

/me giggles..

Sorry to be a bit off topic, but that smiley is damn cute. How many of them do we have now?

[godfry n. glad]

Stochastic. It sounds like a sarcastic stoic.


godfry

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

Agreed. liv is your colleague, but not your co-worker, vm.

godfry

Okay that distinction makes sense. However I've heard it used to describe co-workers a lot. And now that I think about it I've heard academics use it to describe the other people in their department, which goes along with that distinction too. Eh, I still don't like it.

Anyway why would liv be my colleague and not co-worker? The FF is a project we both work on, so doesn't that make us co-workers?

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Yes, and regardless, you're supposing. One could also say in the latter case that you're assuming something. Again, "presupposing" is completely and utterly from the department of redundancy department.

So prejudge and judge are the same thing? How about preheat and heat? Again, the prefix pre is a tool for indicating "beforehand" and does not make the compound word redundant.

Really? I've never actually heard anyone (xian or atheist) use it in real life, and I've only seen xians use it online.

Counting hits and not misses, I suspect. I could link you to a dozen instances of its use all over the internet. Here's one from a political discussion I was involved in on II recently.

Not all, although many occasions are. However, that wasn't what this was about.

Nice.


P.S. - 1217

[John the Non-Baptist]

Originally Posted by Ymir's blood

That smilie is speaking Russian, but what's he saying? You neprov?

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

So prejudge and judge are the same thing?

Technically, yes, although a large number of people use "prejudge" to mean one specific context of judging. Again, "prejudge" is a redundant term, it's one that's probably wise to give up on, though.

How about preheat and heat?

Yep, "preheat" is redundant. There are only two states that an oven can be in: heated and unheated. Again, this is, unfortunately, so commonly used that any probability of changing it is prettymuch zero.

Counting hits and not misses, I suspect.

I could link you to a dozen instances of its use all over the internet. Here's one from a political discussion I was involved in on II recently.

The only place I've seen it used is on the IIDB, specifically in any of the big, long TAG threads.

Actually, now that I think about it, I do remember some atheists in those threads using the words "presupposition" and "presuppose", but only in response to the xians using it.

Nice.

Sorry, liv, but what seems like an attempt to guilt-trip me into not despising xianity isn't going to work. I do like you, hon, but we are very different people when it comes to some issues.

P.S. - 1217

LOL...I spent about a half minute looking at that before realizing what it was a response to.

Wow...1217.

[godfry n. glad]

[QUOTE=Goliath]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

Yep, "preheat" is redundant. There are only two states that an oven can be in: heated and unheated. Again, this is, unfortunately, so commonly used that any probability of changing it is prettymuch zero.

I'll disagree with that.

"Preheat" is to heat the oven up to the temperature at which you wish to cook. Ovens do not instantaneously go from unheated to the desired temperature. It takes time to do that. The period of time from when one turns on the oven, until the oven reaches the desired temperature for the project at hand, is "preheating". If you place the item to be cooked into an unpreheated oven, you increase the chances that the item will be undercooked...this could be deadly with some foods, like chicken.

godfry

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

"Preheat" is to heat the oven up to the temperature at which you wish to cook.

Yes, but that's redundant. You can just say that you're heating the oven.

Ovens do not instantaneously go from unheated to the desired temperature. It takes time to do that.

Correct. That is when the oven is heating up. It's heated above room temperature.

The period of time from when one turns on the oven, until the oven reaches the desired temperature for the project at hand, is "preheating".

Yes, this is the use of the term accepted by most people. I'm not trying to say that "preheat" is not a commonly used word. Only that it's redundant.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Yep, "preheat" is redundant. There are only two states that an oven can be in: heated and unheated. Again, this is, unfortunately, so commonly used that any probability of changing it is prettymuch zero.

The prefix indicates something specific that would otherwise require additional words to indicate; it is therefore not redundant.

Actually, now that I think about it, I do remember some atheists in those threads using the words "presupposition" and "presuppose", but only in response to the xians using it.

It's a commonly used word in discussions, even those populated by only atheists such as the PD thread I just linked you to. A simple search on any number of sites would have disabused you of this notion.

Sorry, liv, but what seems like an attempt to guilt-trip me into not despising xianity isn't going to work.

Well thank God I was attempting no such thing, then. If I find one of your random Christian slams bizarre and hateful I'll say so. Whether you feel guilty about your vicious generalizations is not my concern.

LOL...I spent about a half minute looking at that before realizing what it was a response to.

Wow...1217.

It won't stay at that number for long either.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

The prefix indicates something specific that would otherwise require additional words to indicate;

Not really. There's nothing wrong with the following phrases (other than the fact that they aren't really used that often): "I'm heating the oven to 365 degrees." "Make sure that the oven is heated, or the roast won't cook."

No extra use of words at all without using "preheat".

It's a commonly used word in discussions, even those populated by only atheists such as the PD thread I just linked you to. A simple search on any number of sites would have disabused you of this notion.

I guess it's a more commonly used word than I thought. Fine. Whatever. That doesn't mean that I have to like it.

Well thank God I was attempting no such thing, then. If I find one of your random Christian slams bizarre and hateful I'll say so.

/me nods.

Whether you feel guilty about your vicious generalizations is not my concern.

Well, just for the record, I don't.

It won't stay at that number for long either.

Cool.

[wade-w]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

So prejudge and judge are the same thing? How about preheat and heat? Again, the prefix pre is a tool for indicating "beforehand" and does not make the compound word redundant.

Well, I think I see where Goliath is coming from here, and I have to agree with him. "Suppose" means to make an assumption for the sake of argument, so presuppose means making an assumption for the sake of argument beforehand. Looks pretty superfluous to me.

I just took a look at the entry for presuppose at dictionary.com. In every single case, replacing presuppose with suppose in the examples given for usage will leave the meaning of the sentence completely unchanged. Can you think of a use of "presuppose" where replacing it with "suppose" would change the meaning of the sentence?

Counting hits and not misses, I suspect. I could link you to a dozen instances of its use all over the internet. Here's one from a political discussion I was involved in on II recently.

I may be falling prey to the same hit vs miss fallacy, but as far as I can recall, the first time I ever saw the word used was in a philosophical discussion about EoG, and a school of thought I'd never heard of called presuppositionalism. My first thought on seeing the term was "that's redundant," and my second was that the name implies circular reasoning.

[copiae]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Correct. That is when the oven is heating up. It's heated above room temperature.

Yes, this is the use of the term accepted by most people. I'm not trying to say that "preheat" is not a commonly used word. Only that it's redundant.

When I first saw the word 'preheat', I always interpreted it as "Heat up the oven to whatever temperature PRIOR to sticking whatever you are cooking into said oven". Within this context, it is not redundant at all.

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by Goliath

* Goliath nods.

Originally Posted by Goliath

Well, just for the record, I don't.

I have told you before that I find your frequent slams on Christians to be hateful, vicious generalizations, and you have accused me of attacking you, stuffing words in your mouth and making up lies about you. I'm glad you've decided to admit to it now, so people know your accusations about me are unfounded.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

I have told you before that I find your frequent slams on Christians to be hateful, vicious generalizations,

True. And had you left it at that, the flamewars between us would've been prettymuch nonexistent.

and you have accused me of attacking you, stuffing words in your mouth and making up lies about you.

And for damn good reasons.

I'm glad you've decided to admit to it now,

Admit to what? Acknowledging that liv would tell me if she found my slams on xians to be hateful? About not being guilty about what she perceives are vicious generalizations? What?

so people know your accusations about me are unfounded.

I'll leave it to the readers to decide for themselves about your vicious attempts at libeling me.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by wade-w

Well, I think I see where Goliath is coming from here, and I have to agree with him. "Suppose" means to make an assumption for the sake of argument, so presuppose means making an assumption for the sake of argument beforehand. Looks pretty superfluous to me.

Hmmm... Now that you state it that way, I'd say that to presuppose is to come to the argument with your supposition in hand, rather than allowing your supposition to grow from the information imparted in the dialog.

I'd say it intimates prejudiced opinions.

godfry