First Charles Martel Award

[alphamale]

The first recipient of my newly conceived award, to be given to that rare frenchman who shows some guts, is french interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who called the rioters outside Paris "scum".

[Al Terego]

Originally Posted by BBC News

Mr Sarkozy's description of rioters last week as "scum" (racaille) is said by many to have aggravated the situation - which was further inflamed by reports that a police tear gas grenade had gone off near a mosque.

What is wrong with these people?

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by Al Terego

What is wrong with these people?

Burning hundreds of cars and buildings isn't nice.

[Al Terego]

You seem well informed. Why are they rioting?

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by Al Terego

You seem well informed. Why are they rioting?

They've been carrying out acts of anti-semitism for years. They refuse to assimilate and become "french" - they have an islamic identity. They commit a lot of crime. As a result, they face justifiable antagonism by the french. They also face unemployment as a result of france's overloaded welfare system, and probably think someone owes them a job.

[Al Terego]

They are rioting because of this?

Who is Charles Martel?

[godfry n. glad]

Note here that alphamale is claiming the acts of "anti-semitism" by the Islamic in France have been perpetrated by those who are largely Arabic in heritage and native language....Semites, in other words.

He hasn't been very clear as to whether they participate in self-mortification, familial physical abuse, or community violence visited upon their Islamic neighbors.

[Godless Dave]

Hey, you can stop demonizing the French now. Turns out they were right about Iraq.

Remember, if it weren't for France, we'd still be British subjects.

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by Godless Dave

Hey, you can stop demonizing the French now. Turns out they were right about Iraq.

Remember, if it weren't for France, we'd still be British subjects.

Huh. I wonder why their intelligence services agreed there were WMDs in Iraq? Also, we wouldn't be british subjects - the revolutionary war would have lasted a little longer.

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by alphamale

They've been carrying out acts of anti-semitism for years. They refuse to assimilate and become "french" - they have an islamic identity. They commit a lot of crime. As a result, they face justifiable antagonism by the french. They also face unemployment as a result of france's overloaded welfare system, and probably think someone owes them a job.

A white nationalist who opposes anti-semitism? Now I've seen it all.

[Godless Dave]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Huh. I wonder why their intelligence services agreed there were WMDs in Iraq?

They didn't. Just like most of ours didn't.

[Darren]

Just under two weeks ago, according to eyewitness reports, a group of 11 policemen proceeded to enforce an identity check on a group of youths playing football in the Parisian suburb of Clichy. Not wanting to spend time in the nearest police station for not having ID on them, the kids scattered. Six were caught and duly taken to the Police station. Three more were chased down to an electricity substation, whereupon they scaled the fence and entered the said substation.
The Police were aware of this, and passed the information to their command centre by radio. Two of the youths died, and the third received severe burns, as a result of electrocution.
This is what started off the present crisis. The fact that the youths died while being chased by Police (which was initially officially denied) caused the discontented youths of the sprawling "banlieux" to take out their frustration by rioting. The riots have spread throughout France to other suburbs. Thousands of cars have been burned, as well as busses and various civic buildings. Molotov cocktails and even hunting shotguns have been used against police riot squads. Firemen attempting to deal with the fires started by the youths have also been assaulted.

Why are they (the youths of the affected suburbs) frustrated?

- When Nicholas Sarkozy first took over the office of Minister of the Interior, he immediately directed the Police (in a humiliating public interview) to stop all existing programmes aiming at building community relationships with the youth of the suburbs, and instead to concentrate their efforts solely on the repression of crime. This has resulted in a dramatic rise in the incidence of harassment as the Police are under enormous pressure to "get results" quickly. This pressure has been passed off onto the youth of the poorest suburban sprawls, resulting in an increase in the tension between Police and disaffected youths.

- The suburbs worst hit are, to some extent, ghettos for families of African (Maghreban and West Subsahara) origin (even though the vast majority of the youths are 100% French since it was their parents or grandparents who were immigrants). They also tend to be Muslim. These youths are demonstrably the victims of racism on several fronts:

Employment (local unemployment around 40%)
Leisure (refusal of entry to e.g. nightclubs etc)
Housing (many landlords being blatantly racist)
Media (negative stereotypes of "Arabs" etc.)
Religion (negative stereotyping of Islam)
Identity (not considered "French" by many)

- Nicholas Sarkozy has, over the past years, consistently demonized the youths of the "banlieux", using derogatory language on a number of occasions, as well as recently saying that he would "clean up the suburbs with a steam hose". Note that this was all prior to the riots.

- There has been a rise in support for openly racist, Far Right (unashamedly fascist) political movements, notably the Front National. Such movements are fomenting a serious anti-Islamic sentiment in France which is present throughout the country on various levels. The global stigmatizing of Muslims has only added to this problem.

- One Police chief remarked that the only place open 24 hours a day for the youth of these suburbs is the Police station. There is really very little for the kids of these ghettos in the way of facilities or prospects.



So, they are rioting. Oil has been thrown on the fire by the use of a standard issue CRS (riot squad) CS gas canister against people at a mosque, as well as by Sarkozy's standard rhetoric. Tonight, curfews (against minors) have been ordered in several areas, as a 1955 law relating to the declaration of a state of emergency on parts of French territory has been invoked. Ironically, this law dates from the Algerian war of independence, and was initially used as an instrument of colonial repression in Algeria.

These suburbs do represent a part of French society which has been left aside, and there is a real malaise here which runs deep, and which isn't new. Unfortunately but unsurprisingly, demagogues of the Moderate Right (Sarkozy) and the Far Right (Le Pen) are seizing the day to score points for their own authoritarian political stances.

On the bright side, local mediators, community workers and members and the various French Muslim associations are working hard and round the clock at calming down the situation, providing a cool counterpoint to Sarkozy and others' inflammatory rhetoric.

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

A white nationalist who opposes anti-semitism? Now I've seen it all.

Or maybe your perceptions are confused?

[Darren]

Originally Posted by alphamale

They refuse to assimilate and become "french" - they have an islamic identity.

You seem to be suggesting that having an Islamic identity and being French are somehow mutually exclusive. How can you justify this assertion? Most French Muslims are so (i.e. are 100% French) by second or third generation immigration. They are not refusing to be French, most are sick of being considered anything but French.

[Darren]

Originally Posted by alphamale

They've been carrying out acts of anti-semitism for years. They refuse to assimilate and become "french" - they have an islamic identity. They commit a lot of crime. As a result, they face justifiable antagonism by the french. They also face unemployment as a result of france's overloaded welfare system, and probably think someone owes them a job.

Sorry, who are they? What do you know about them?
I don't generally like labels, but this is just racist, sectarian bilge.
Even Sarkozy wouldn't spout nonsense of this degree. (Le Pen would, though, and frequently does)

[Godless Dave]

You seem to be suggesting that having an Islamic identity and being French are somehow mutually exclusive.

Indeed, France has guaranteed freedom of religion for over 200 years, almost as long as the US. Of course, in both countries having it in writing doesn't necessarily mean it exists in reality.