What would we do without lawyers?

[alphamale]

Chicago lawyer Stephen Diamond has filed about 100 lawsuits since 2002 against companies for failing to charge him sales tax on items he bought, earning himself about $500,000 in settlements and judgments, according to an October Wall Street Journal report. Diamond has exploited a law in Illinois that allows citizens to receive part of the proceeds from certain law violations, including from companies that might be authorized to collect sales tax on Internet purchases but have chosen not to because the law is not completely settled. (Tennessee and Virginia, which have similar laws, have amended them to prevent lawsuits like Diamond's.) [Wall Street Journal, 10-14-05]

[Corona688]

I take it that tax evasion is perfectly fine-and-dandy with you then?

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Diamond has exploited a law ...

Interesting, since it takes the state AG to join the suit for Diamond to realize anything. I thought you were a big fan of the legislative and executive branches. Now you're accusing them of exploiting their own laws?

[ManM]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Chicago lawyer Stephen Diamond has filed about 100 lawsuits since 2002 against companies for failing to charge him sales tax on items he bought, earning himself about $500,000 in settlements and judgments, according to an October Wall Street Journal report. Diamond has exploited a law in Illinois that allows citizens to receive part of the proceeds from certain law violations, including from companies that might be authorized to collect sales tax on Internet purchases but have chosen not to because the law is not completely settled. (Tennessee and Virginia, which have similar laws, have amended them to prevent lawsuits like Diamond's.) [Wall Street Journal, 10-14-05]

Anyone care to guess who's pocket that money comes from? I'm betting the management isn't taking any paycuts. So, either they are firing people, lowering worker's pay, or passing on the expense to the consumers. In essence, I suspect Mr. Diamond has pilfered half a million from us average joes.

[beyelzu]

eh, i bet those companies are paying taxes these days

and that makes less tax burden for those average joes

[ManM]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

eh, i bet those companies are paying taxes these days

and that makes less tax burden for those average joes

Since when did companies pay the sales tax themselves? That's just going to get passed on to us as well. Our tax burden doesn't change.

[beyelzu]

they werent charging it, and thus werent paying those taxes

governments need money to help people in need that money has to come from somewhere.

[ManM]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

they werent charging it, and thus werent paying those taxes

governments need money to help people in need that money has to come from somewhere.

Yea, in the case of sales tax, that money comes from the average joe. So basically, the companies were not taking money from the average joe and giving it to the government. So, Mr. Diamond comes in and sues the companies, and in 3 or 4 years makes 14 years worth of average joe salary doing it. The companies will probably compensate for those legal expenses by raising prices or lowering operating costs, both of which come out of the pocket of the average joe. On top of that, the average joe now gets to pay the sales tax the companies were not charging before. Lawyer wins, companies aren't impacted all that much, and the average joe loses.

[beyelzu]

you forget penalties.

also it seems in your view there is no way to punish companies

[ManM]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

you forget penalties.

also it seems in your view there is no way to punish companies

Again, the penalties will most likely be passed down to the consumer or taken out of operating expenses. As for a way to punish companies, the quickest way is to acknowledge that a "company" isn't really a faceless blob. It's fundamentally a group of people. So, find the particular people responsible for the crime and go after them personally.

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by Corona688

I take it that tax evasion is perfectly fine-and-dandy with you then?

Riiiiiight - like the lawyer was motivated by his altruistic sense of civic duty!

[Clutch Munny]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

governments need money to help people in need that money has to come from somewhere.

Same as always from you. Fucking bleeding heart liberal socialist pinko bitch.

[Corona688]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Riiiiiight - like the lawyer was motivated by his altruistic sense of civic duty!

No shit, sherlock -- nobody said it was.

But you never answered my question. I'll take the opportunity to clarify and expand it a bit. Is tax evasion perfectly A-OK with you, or do you think it should be prosecuted? If it should be prosecuted, any particular reason you're objecting to it being prosecuted by this guy in particular? This is your opportunity to make yourself look smart, am! Use big words and explain why you think this is wrong instead of posting one-liners and running.

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by Corona688

No shit, sherlock -- nobody said it was.

But you never answered my question. I'll take the opportunity to clarify and expand it a bit. Is tax evasion perfectly A-OK with you, or do you think it should be prosecuted? If it should be prosecuted, any particular reason you're objecting to it being prosecuted by this guy in particular?

Tax evasion should be under the purview of the tax authorities, not greedy self-enriching lawyers. Clear enough for you Einstein?

[erimir]

Then I guess you should complain to the Illinois legislature who made the law that allows greedy self-enriching lawyers to do so.

But wait, they're not lawyers or judges, so how can they be doing something wrong?!?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by beyelzu

also it seems in your view there is no way to punish companies

Unfortunately, that's pretty close to the truth. Any monetary penalty imposed on a company tends to get passed on to either consumers in the form of higher prices or employees in the form of lower wages. The executive management who decided to break the law and the investors who profited from the decision are shielded from harm. Unless the penalty is so stiff that the company would be unable to pass the cost along to customers or employeees without losing competitiveness (through lost business or loss of skilled labor), those responsible for breaking the law aren't going to see any consequences.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Tax evasion should be under the purview of the tax authorities, not greedy self-enriching lawyers. Clear enough for you Einstein?

In theory, you're right. See, the thing is, though, I suspect it would cost a lot of tax money to pay for all the additional employees the tax authorities would need to effectively police everyone involved. Would you care to volunteer to pay higher taxes to fund better enforcement of the tax laws? Why do I suspect you wouldn't?

Maybe we could find some sort of a free market solution, then, where individuals acting in their own rational self interest could make a buck from helping enforce the...wait a minute...that's how it works now! Genius!

(Note. I do not necessarily think the way the system works now is "Genius". I would probably, in fact, prefer better, more expensive enforcement of the tax code by the proper authorities. I haven't really spent a lot of time thinking about it. I simply spent ten seconds allowing two of my brain cells rub together and realized that there are, indeed, arguments in favor of allowing private individuals to sue for tax evasion.)

[Corona688]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Tax evasion should be under the purview of the tax authorities, not greedy self-enriching lawyers. Clear enough for you Einstein?

Yes, thank you.