Shoes Made Specifically For Sneaking Across Border

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

No, the shoes make it possible to break the law. They might also be useful for citizens wishing to patrol the border as individuals and report any illegal immigrants they spot. The shoes would make a funny joke. They might be great conversation pieces, or just plain comfortable. End of story.

Of course, if what you mean is that the things may too often be used to break the law, or are sold with the full expectation that harm will be done using them, then I'll be happy to see you campaigning also for criminal charges against firearms manufacturers...

Uh, you're confused. It's like saying possessing drug paraphenalia for "great conversation pieces". Guns can be used for legal purposes, whereas maps to enter the U.S. illegally have only one purpose - to enter the U.S. illegally. It's the maps, not the shoes they're in.

[ChuckF]

Originally Posted by alphamale

Guns can be used for legal purposes, whereas maps to enter the U.S. illegally have only one purpose - to enter the U.S. illegally. It's the maps, not the shoes they're in.

Map possession is not illegal. Can US citizens have these maps, since they obviously won't be entering the US illegally? Which parts of the border region are classified? What constitutes a map? Sketch of the Rio Grande on a napkin?

[Corona688]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

Map possession is not illegal. Can US citizens have these maps, since they obviously won't be entering the US illegally? Which parts of the border region are classified? What constitutes a map? Sketch of the Rio Grande on a napkin?

I don't think possession of the shoes is necessarily a crime, the same way that simple possession of most any other footwear isn't necessarily a crime. It's their creator willingly giving them away to people who obviously intend to commit crimes with them, that's the problem. He only gives them away free to people who intend to commit illegal border crossings. Obviously he'd have to know.

If you willingly obtain a gun for someone else who has obvious intent to kill someone else with it, is that not conspiracy to commit murder? If you willingly obtain tools and maps for someone who obviously intends an illegal border crossing, is this not conspiracy to commit an illegal border crossing? Note that neither participant is being forced to participate, and both have knowledge of the intended crime.

[alphamale]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

Map possession is not illegal.

I didn't say map possession is illegal. Sale of them should be illegal because they are evidence of a conspiracy.

[Corona688]

Originally Posted by alphamale

I didn't say map possession is illegal. Sale of them should be illegal because they are evidence of a conspiracy.

I think that's taking it a bit too far. They're only evidence of a conspiracy, when a conspiracy is actually happening. Maps have legitimate uses and aren't exactly controlled items, the drug analogy doesn't work. Moreover, people are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and it's extremely hard to prove intent.

The guy giving away these shoes, though, has created a unique situation -- the people with the free shoes have already stated their intent to commit a crime with these shoes, and wouldn't get them free if they didn't.