Yet Another Reason For Sovereignty

[disobey]

Originally Posted by seebs

I was commenting on your style, not your substance, with reference to your "if someone writes like me, that means they're intelligent" idiocy. That said, right here in this thread, we have a glorious example of your substance being bad: You seem to understand that the retailer claims about how much they lose from stuff being allegedly stolen from them are complete bullshit, and yet, you act like their other claims premised on that should be taken seriously.

That's fucking stupid.

"Here's how I can tell these people are lying, and this is my conclusion based on the assumption that the thing I just demonstrated that they're lying about is actually true."

I'd say you're smarter than that but I haven't actually seen the evidence, yet.

So, another troll. I'm not surprised. To hell with my style. You seen my thread. Tell me what is in it that you disagree with or piss off.

[disobey]

Originally Posted by Miss Shelby

If only there were a way to investigate sock puppet accounts.

What's all this sock puppet crap. You saw the title of my thread. And you no doubt read it. Try telling me something in it that you disagree with instead of tossing "sock puppet" accusations around.

[LarsMac]

Originally Posted by disobey

What's all this sock puppet crap. You saw the title of my thread. And you no doubt read it. Try telling me something in it that you disagree with instead of tossing "sock puppet" accusations around.

I would suggest that the responses received so far pretty well serve as a clue to what folks think of your content.

[seebs]

Originally Posted by disobey

So, another troll. I'm not surprised. To hell with my style. You seen my thread. Tell me what is in it that you disagree with or piss off.

I did in fact point out a glaring error in the OP of this thread, right there in the post you quoted.

You pointed out an obvious lie from the people claiming these stores were being shut down due to alleged stealing, and yet, you're still making claims that only make sense if we assume everything else they told us is true. Why? Why make the thread at all? Why not just look at it, notice the obvious lie, conclude that it's bullshit, and stop there?

It'd be one thing if you were dumb enough not to catch the obvious lie, and just fell for it. Then at least you'd have the excuse that you were merely being credulous. But no, you spotted that they were lying... then went ahead and started a thread based on their lies anyway.

That's actually really dumb.

There's other problems also, but I'm not going to go on ahead to those because I just don't care. Once you realize the people making these claims are liars, there's no real point to continuing to have a conversation about the lies they told as though they weren't lies.

[disobey]

Originally Posted by LarsMac

I would suggest that the responses received so far pretty well serve as a clue to what folks think of your content.

If you disagree with any of my content, tell me what is wrong in any of it. If you or anybody else can't do that, it isn't me who you should be looking down upon. It is yourselves.

[disobey]

Originally Posted by seebs

I did in fact point out a glaring error in the OP of this thread, right there in the post you quoted.

You pointed out an obvious lie from the people claiming these stores were being shut down due to alleged stealing, and yet, you're still making claims that only make sense if we assume everything else they told us is true. Why? Why make the thread at all? Why not just look at it, notice the obvious lie, conclude that it's bullshit, and stop there?

It'd be one thing if you were dumb enough not to catch the obvious lie, and just fell for it. Then at least you'd have the excuse that you were merely being credulous. But no, you spotted that they were lying... then went ahead and started a thread based on their lies anyway.

That's actually really dumb.

There's other problems also, but I'm not going to go on ahead to those because I just don't care. Once you realize the people making these claims are liars, there's no real point to continuing to have a conversation about the lies they told as though they weren't lies.

You pointed out nothing. What I spoke of is what reporters on the news were saying. They weren't making crap up. Apparently it was the stores themselves who told the reporters why they were closing some stores. If you don't believe the stories, try this. Call the corporate offices of any of those stores. Tell them that you heard on the news that they were closing down whatever store because of theft. Then ask them if it is true. See what they say.

[seebs]

Why would I believe anything they have to say? As you already pointed out, the numbers they're giving for how much they have to sell to make up for a given amount of theft are complete nonsense. Which is to say: They're lying.

We know the stores are lying. Why should we believe anything the stores tell us, given that they're lying?

[disobey]

Originally Posted by seebs

Why would I believe anything they have to say? As you already pointed out, the numbers they're giving for how much they have to sell to make up for a given amount of theft are complete nonsense. Which is to say: They're lying.

We know the stores are lying. Why should we believe anything the stores tell us, given that they're lying?

Fudging the numbers as to how much stores really lose is one thing. Saying that they are closing whatever stores due to theft is a completely different thing. Something that they would probably be even less likely to say, because it would seem "racist." And you know how well over being racist goes. So it is most likely the truth.

[seebs]

No, saying anything false in furtherence of their narrative about how much of a problem theft is is evidence that they're lying, especially on anything and everything to do with whether theft is the problem, or even materially a problem, and it is ridiculous to expect anyone to believe anything they say at all on the topic of theft.

There are plenty of things that might be the actual reasons stores are closing, where claiming it was instead theft might seem to them like it's a better claim to be making. I'm not going to believe them, at all, period, without access to something that is provably the actual real books showing the numbers, and by that I mean fully independently audited with a good paper trail. Which won't exist, because there's nowhere for anyone to get that information except from a company that I already know is willing to lie in order to claim that theft is a big problem they're struggling with.

Arguments of the form "well they wouldn't want to say X because it looks bad" are very rarely persuasive unless you can demonstrate convincingly that there's no other true things that would look worse. It's also relevant that most people wouldn't interpret the theft claim per se as "racist", because it's actually just you imagining that the explanation for theft being high one place and not another is definitely race.

[disobey]

Originally Posted by seebs

No, saying anything false in furtherence of their narrative about how much of a problem theft is is evidence that they're lying, especially on anything and everything to do with whether theft is the problem, or even materially a problem, and it is ridiculous to expect anyone to believe anything they say at all on the topic of theft.

There are plenty of things that might be the actual reasons stores are closing, where claiming it was instead theft might seem to them like it's a better claim to be making. I'm not going to believe them, at all, period, without access to something that is provably the actual real books showing the numbers, and by that I mean fully independently audited with a good paper trail. Which won't exist, because there's nowhere for anyone to get that information except from a company that I already know is willing to lie in order to claim that theft is a big problem they're struggling with.

Arguments of the form "well they wouldn't want to say X because it looks bad" are very rarely persuasive unless you can demonstrate convincingly that there's no other true things that would look worse. It's also relevant that most people wouldn't interpret the theft claim per se as "racist", because it's actually just you imagining that the explanation for theft being high one place and not another is definitely race.

What if somebody stole something from you. Then you told somebody else about it. Should they believe you? Also, stores exist to make money. If they don't make money, they close. That's the end of the story. There's no reason to make up some bullshit story about theft being the reason. In fact, using some other reason besides the real reason would probably eventually end up biting them in the ass. Having said that, I don't want to debate this subject any more. I have some other far more interesting threads out there. Though most of them are in the cloaca section. Pick one of them and reply to it. Might I suggest the one about murdering White children?

[fragment]

disobey: "If you disagree with any of my content, tell me what is wrong in any of it."

also disobey: "I don't want to debate this subject any more."

[seebs]

Originally Posted by disobey

What if somebody stole something from you. Then you told somebody else about it. Should they believe you?

I think that depends.

If I start by explaining to you that, any time someone steals $100 from me, I have to earn $10,000 to make it back, and then I go on to explain that people are stealing from me, and because of this theft I need to close stores... Actually you should probably not believe me, because you know I'm lying about the exact topic under discussion.

If I'm not directly lying to you about this topic, then maybe believe me?

Also, stores exist to make money. If they don't make money, they close. That's the end of the story. There's no reason to make up some bullshit story about theft being the reason.

It seems pretty obvious that there are many reasons someone might make up a bullshit story. What you could truthfully say is that you have not yet thought of or seen a reason for them to be lying.

But then, they don't have a really good reason to be telling the obvious lie about how much it costs them to make back money they lose to theft, and they told that one.

Also, it's... just not actually that simple. Companies have subsidized a store that actually lost money but that they valued for prestige reasons, or when they didn't want to Show Signs Of Weakness, because customer confidence in a brand can be important. People will be less willing to buy from a company that is closing stores, because they might be unable to return things to a store if it closes. So companies can and do keep a specific store open even though it loses money if they are running it for indirect benefits of some kind.

Similarly, there are reasons for which a company might close a store that's making money hand over fist. For instance, if they think employees might be unionizing, closing a store before there's a union prevents the union from getting a foothold, while being much less obviously illegal than closing it when the union actually forms. There's lots of other reasons.

What this tells us is (1) you don't know a fucking thing about how businesses work, (2) you're not very curious and don't have much inclination to consider possible explanations that would be outside your immediate experience and naive simplifications.

Not really news, but you wanted to be told about things you said that are wrong, and this was very much one of them.

In fact, using some other reason besides the real reason would probably eventually end up biting them in the ass. Having said that, I don't want to debate this subject any more.

"Any more" would make more sense here if you had ever actually debated it at all, rather than just saying stupid shit and plugging your ears with your fingers and shouting nonsense to avoid hearing responses.

I have some other far more interesting threads out there. Though most of them are in the cloaca section. Pick one of them and reply to it. Might I suggest the one about murdering White children?

Why would I care about anything you write? You've made it clear that you are completely disinterested in critical thought and are just repeating whatever lies someone told you that you feel serve your political agenda.

My housemate used to have a dog who was sort of cognitively challenged. Sometimes he would trip over his own feet, and then he'd panic and lie there on the floor, pissing himself in fear, because he didn't know what happened. He's dead now, which is just as well, because otherwise there'd have been a risk that he'd have encountered your incoherent racism and it would have made him stupider.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by fragment

disobey: "If you disagree with any of my content, tell me what is wrong in any of it."

also disobey: "I don't want to debate this subject any more."

Yes, disobey is weak-willed and weak-minded.

[disobey]

Originally Posted by seebs

I think that depends.

If I start by explaining to you that, any time someone steals $100 from me, I have to earn $10,000 to make it back, and then I go on to explain that people are stealing from me, and because of this theft I need to close stores... Actually you should probably not believe me, because you know I'm lying about the exact topic under discussion.

If I'm not directly lying to you about this topic, then maybe believe me?

It seems pretty obvious that there are many reasons someone might make up a bullshit story. What you could truthfully say is that you have not yet thought of or seen a reason for them to be lying.

But then, they don't have a really good reason to be telling the obvious lie about how much it costs them to make back money they lose to theft, and they told that one.

Also, it's... just not actually that simple. Companies have subsidized a store that actually lost money but that they valued for prestige reasons, or when they didn't want to Show Signs Of Weakness, because customer confidence in a brand can be important. People will be less willing to buy from a company that is closing stores, because they might be unable to return things to a store if it closes. So companies can and do keep a specific store open even though it loses money if they are running it for indirect benefits of some kind.

Similarly, there are reasons for which a company might close a store that's making money hand over fist. For instance, if they think employees might be unionizing, closing a store before there's a union prevents the union from getting a foothold, while being much less obviously illegal than closing it when the union actually forms. There's lots of other reasons.

What this tells us is (1) you don't know a fucking thing about how businesses work, (2) you're not very curious and don't have much inclination to consider possible explanations that would be outside your immediate experience and naive simplifications.

Not really news, but you wanted to be told about things you said that are wrong, and this was very much one of them.

"Any more" would make more sense here if you had ever actually debated it at all, rather than just saying stupid shit and plugging your ears with your fingers and shouting nonsense to avoid hearing responses.

Why would I care about anything you write? You've made it clear that you are completely disinterested in critical thought and are just repeating whatever lies someone told you that you feel serve your political agenda.

My housemate used to have a dog who was sort of cognitively challenged. Sometimes he would trip over his own feet, and then he'd panic and lie there on the floor, pissing himself in fear, because he didn't know what happened. He's dead now, which is just as well, because otherwise there'd have been a risk that he'd have encountered your incoherent racism and it would have made him stupider.

I have heard that debating with the stupid is pointless. I guess in your case, they were right.

[seebs]

It's not actually pointless, though, I sometimes enjoy it! I'm doing it for recreation, not because I think you're persuadable.

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Originally Posted by seebs

It's not actually pointless, though, I sometimes enjoy it! I'm doing it for recreation, not because I think you're persuadable.

I’m enjoying reading your breakdowns; it’s un for the whole amily.

[seebs]

Yeah. The audience is not disobey, who in any event does not seem to be capable of anything much like actually "debating" in any meaningful sense. The audience is people who can tell it's wrong but don't feel like expending the effort to explain why.

This is sort of the thing with white supremacist types; they don't actually debate, because they genuinely can't. If they had the toolset necessary to participate in a debate, they wouldn't have been suckered like that in the first place. What they have is a sort of superficial tone-based sense of what arguments look like, and a strong sense that they must be right, because if they're not, then they've been saying stupid shit and the problems they blamed on specific other people are actually not the fault of those people, which they might feel sort of bad about.

Solution: Absolutely do not learn anything, don't read, don't think, just make your refusal to learn basic tools of rational thought into a point of pride. "Disobey", because developing the level of critical thinking we used to expect from kids in their early teens would be "obedience" to something, somehow.

[-FX-]

Originally Posted by disobey

Didn't think FX was that much of an asshole to want that.

I joked around that I could make you vanish for good. I thought it would be obvious it was humor. I would be wrong.

Also, flash mobs for looting, as well as the constant shoplifting, street crime, carjacking and other forms of theft, will not only bankrupt an area, a business, a government, or individuals, it will also cause a nationwide white flight, not just from cities to suburbs. White people are leaving high crime woke areas.

And you can't blame them.

[-FX-]

Originally Posted by seebs

This is sort of the thing with white supremacist types; they don't actually debate, because they genuinely can't.

It's easy to confuse white supremacy with just good old fashioned supremacy.

Like with Poland. Nobody considers them white supremacist types. But they definitely aren't going to debate you. And they are definitely not going to allow millions of Muslims into their country.

No more than Egypt is going to allow 4 million Palestinians into Egypt. Hell, they won't even allow a few thousand in. And they are not going to debate the matter.

[disobey]

Originally Posted by seebs

Yeah. The audience is not disobey, who in any event does not seem to be capable of anything much like actually "debating" in any meaningful sense. The audience is people who can tell it's wrong but don't feel like expending the effort to explain why.

This is sort of the thing with white supremacist types; they don't actually debate, because they genuinely can't. If they had the toolset necessary to participate in a debate, they wouldn't have been suckered like that in the first place. What they have is a sort of superficial tone-based sense of what arguments look like, and a strong sense that they must be right, because if they're not, then they've been saying stupid shit and the problems they blamed on specific other people are actually not the fault of those people, which they might feel sort of bad about.

Solution: Absolutely do not learn anything, don't read, don't think, just make your refusal to learn basic tools of rational thought into a point of pride. "Disobey", because developing the level of critical thinking we used to expect from kids in their early teens would be "obedience" to something, somehow.

Let's put this in a way that you may understand. You are a piece of shit. Your arguments are also nonsense. I suggested you read another thread before. But now I will post a link to it. It has many pictures of White children murdered by negroes in various ways. (Along with some of their parents) Feel free to assign a number to each picture in the order that they appear. Say something flippant or nonsensical about any of them. Include the number in which they appear so I can know what murdered White child you don't give a flippin flying fuck about.

Freethought Forum

[disobey]

Originally Posted by -FX-

I joked around that I could make you vanish for good. I thought it would be obvious it was humor. I would be wrong.

Also, flash mobs for looting, as well as the constant shoplifting, street crime, carjacking and other forms of theft, will not only bankrupt an area, a business, a government, or individuals, it will also cause a nationwide white flight, not just from cities to suburbs. White people are leaving high crime woke areas.

And you can't blame them.

Why would you even joke around about something like that. As for the point of this thread, there isn't a more popular political forum out there that will even allow you to discuss such matters. They will call you a troll, sock, racist, spammer or some other crap as a reason for banning you.

If only I could find somebody somewhere who would go to any of those forums and speak up for me. But I've never found anybody to do so. At some of those other forums, I've also mentioned this forum and that they should come here to debate me. Nobody ever has. To that end, I have a number of memes as to why. You might find them interesting.

[seebs]

Originally Posted by disobey

Let's put this in a way that you may understand.

I understand you, I just don't care what you are saying.

You are a piece of shit. Your arguments are also nonsense.

So you might say, and yet... you don't have any arguments. You haven't actually presented any kind of argumentation. You've made sweeping claims, which were sorta dumb, but you don't actually have any kind of argumentation to tie your various claims together in some way. You say my arguments are nonsense, but you don't actually have a specific logical error you can point out.

That's because you don't actually know how arguments work. You're just emulating the tone of things you think are "arguments" without understanding how the parts of them connect to each other.

The problem here isn't that no one's debating you. It's that when someone actually does take the time to explain why your posts are stupid, you have no idea what to do next, except claim that it was nonsense, refuse to engage with it, and post links to other places where you made assertions without supporting them.

I did debate. I pointed out how your position was inconsistent and unsupported. You cold conceded the point -- you did not respond to it in any way except to call me names and try to switch to a topic you think you'd win on. But that's another way of saying you lost the debate. Possibly because you never knew how in the first place.

If you want to be taken seriously, start by learning how argumentation works. Like, develop the ability to understand why "I think these people are obviously lying, but anyway here's a thing they said and you should believe it" is a really bad starting point for an argument. Learn basic reasoning skills. Stop doing everything with irrelevant quotes and soundbites that you think mean that a famous person said something therefore everyone should believe that you're smart.

I know it's emotionally vital to you to think that you're actually a super clever arguer who is just totally winning, and that's why people won't engage, but actually it's just that people try saying a thing with some kind of actual logical argument in it, and you just gibber angrily at them, because you don't have any idea how arguments work.

Go do some school or something. Learn about basic logic, and then move on to the more nuanced stuff that people use when arguing things that aren't easily broken down into propositions which are entirely boolean.

[-FX-]

Originally Posted by disobey

If only I could find somebody somewhere who would go to any of those forums and speak up for me.

Dude, nobody wants anything to do with you, much less to be your advocate. I tried to explain why, and you verbally attacked me. Well, tried to.

[disobey]

Originally Posted by -FX-

Dude, nobody wants anything to do with you, much less to be your advocate. I tried to explain why, and you verbally attacked me. Well, tried to.

You don't need to tell me what I already said. And if I ever verbally attacked you, there was probably a reason for it. But in that regard, you have the vast majority of humanity for company.

[LarsMac]

The problem in today's world is that one man's good, seems to be another man's Evil.

Most of what you espouse, I abhor.

It's as simple as that.