Legal types

[LadyShea]

How do I go about suing attorneys? Is it the same as any other lawsuit?

[D. Scarlatti]

Same as suing anyone or anything else. You need to state a legal claim that arises from a factual dispute. Is this an attorney that represented you? You have an ineffective assistance of counsel claim? Those are fun.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

How do I go about suing attorneys? Is it the same as any other lawsuit?

It's a civil suit, so I suspect you need to find an attorney who deals in malpractice suits...particularly legal malpractice suits.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

Same as suing anyone or anything else. You need to state a legal claim that arises from a factual dispute. Is this an attorney that represented you? You have an ineffective assistance of counsel claim? Those are fun.

Yes, one that represented me and one that represented Cade's birthmom.

[D. Scarlatti]

Are you considering getting another attorney involved, or are you looking to draft a complaint yourself?

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

Are you considering getting another attorney involved, or are you looking to draft a complaint yourself?

Dunno. We have an attorney here that somewhat knows the situation (she should intimately know it, but the aforementioned ones I want to sue didn't get her the paperwork), so when it's all over and done with and fixed, I might could ask her if we have a case.

[JoeP]

What's gone wrong, LS?

[D. Scarlatti]

Yes, you should be able to get some time with a local attorney, 15 minutes or so, who can evaluate the merits of your case for no charge. Although hardly anyone would advise you to, you can go ahead and sue whomever you want pro se, that is, without a licensed attorney representing you. But that will take you a hell of a lot of time, simply in researching the issues and determining the proper procedure, never mind framing your argument. Whatever you do, don't try and accept "legal advice" online.

[LadyShea]

The NC attorneys screwed up with ICPC. So, today, instead of calling our AL attorney they called the birthmom threatening all sorts of dire things, like sending a social worker to pick up the baby and putting him in foster care, and voiding the whole adoption and barring us from "fixing" the issue if we don't get back to NC immediately. She shouldn't have received those calls.

[cappuccino]

Oh bleedin' Jesus Christ, yeah sounds like they screwed up big time. I'd guess suing attorneys shouldn't be no different than filing a civic malpractice suit, I'm sure the attorney you picked will file the correct kind of lawsuit...assuming she's not as incompetent as the NC ones.

[maddog]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

Yes, you should be able to get some time with a local attorney, 15 minutes or so, who can evaluate the merits of your case for no charge. Although hardly anyone would advise you to, you can go ahead and sue whomever you want pro se, that is, without a licensed attorney representing you. But that will take you a hell of a lot of time, simply in researching the issues and determining the proper procedure, never mind framing your argument. Whatever you do, don't try and accept "legal advice" online.

Not to mention that being a litigant makes you crazy, whether you are doing it yourself (most) or are represented by counsel (somewhat less). I'd have to be pretty desperate to become a litigant.

But whatever the problem is that you are having may not have to come to blows. Some kind of letters/explanations/mediation might resolve the issues. Your attorney should help buffer you against direct contacts from other parties. If you no longer trust the attorney who represented you, i.e., if there was some huge gaffe in the paperwork that leaves the adoption vulnerable, you need to consult new counsel pronto to help you resolve this difficulty.

I am not an expert, I don't actively practice law in any particular field (I specialize in appellate law, and my client is the "the court"), and I am not familiar with AL or NC law. This is not legal advice, this is just encouragement from a friend.
#672

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

The NC attorneys screwed up with ICPC. So, today, instead of calling our AL attorney they called the birthmom threatening all sorts of dire things, like sending a social worker to pick up the baby and putting him in foster care, and voiding the whole adoption and barring us from "fixing" the issue if we don't get back to NC immediately. She shouldn't have received those calls.

They shouldn't have made those calls. I mean, really, unless they have concerns for the welfare of the child, what are they doing making threats over some beaurocratic snafu? Mediation seems a far more reasonable approach to me.

I hope this gets worked out promptly and thoroughly, Shea.

[Godless Dave]

So you don't have the baby yet?

[LadyShea]

We have the baby, we were appointed legal guardians by a NC district court judge and the court order stated we were cleared to go to Alabama immediately, which we did...however the ICPC (Interstate Compact on the Placement of Children) states their requirements supercede the guardianship, and we are in violation of Federal Law (which is what ICPC is) because our NC attorneys did not get the docs reviewed, one of them (the most crucial) was on the wrong form, and they failed to get us approved for interstate transport of the baby.

Frank and the baby are going back to NC tomorrow and will have to stay there until the correct forms are signed and reviewed by the ICPC admins in both states and we receive approval for them to come back to AL. I can't afford to take more time off.

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

[W]e are in violation of Federal Law ...

Who told you that? And which section of the law, do you know?

Also, is the ICPC administrator a state or federal employee? All the states adopted ICPC individually, I believe.

[LadyShea]

The ICPC administrator. Giving her credit, however, she states all this rigamarole is for our protection...that the violation of ICPC regulations could be used to contest the adoption down the road (by the birthparents or other interested parties). Consent can't be attacked because we have consent forms out the wazoo, but they want to ensure there are no loopholes that can be used against us later. That's their story anyhow.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

Who told you that? And which section of the law, do you know?

Also, is the ICPC administrator a state or federal employee? All the states adopted ICPC individually, I believe.

Dunno which section...we left the state without ICPC approval is all.

Each state has it's own ICPC administrator, and the "sending" state and the "receiving" state both have various requirements and must give verbal approval before the child can leave/enter. Again, that's their story, anyway.

We were never allowed to speak with ICPC directly, though we tried. They would only speak to our attorneys. We hire fucking professionals, I am STILL anal enough to want to go direct to the source, I am not allowed to and I GET BURNED. People wonder why I am such a hardass sometimes...it's because this shit happens if I don't personally stay on top of things.

[D. Scarlatti]

So the NC district court's clearance didn't constitute approval within NC's ICPC framework?

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

So the NC district court's clearance didn't constitute approval within NC's ICPC framework?

Right. They claim the judge did not have jusrisdiction because it was an Interstate adoption...ICPCland....not a guardianship or custody issue.

[maddog]

crossed fingers it will all come right in the end.
{{{LadyShea, Frank & Cade}}}
#673

[D. Scarlatti]

Interesting. I can't really say anything about the substantive law, since I'd never even heard of it until this thread. But, that doesn't make all that much sense, because, as I said, each state adopted the ICPC language individually, so surely a state district court judge has jurisdiction, despite the fact that ICPC was originally solely a federal statute.

Have you spoken to a knowledgeable attorney in your area before undertaking this additional large investment of time and money? Surely there's an ICPC specialist within calling distance.

[LadyShea]

Have you spoken to a knowledgeable attorney in your area before undertaking this additional large investment of time and money? Surely there's an ICPC specialist within calling distance.

Yes, our Alabama attorney finally received everything (after my begging NC attys for a week to get it sent) and called ICPC yesterday after hearing about the threats...she thought that sounded hinky. Anyway, they have to go to NC to get this resolved. We are supposed to already be there technically.

[D. Scarlatti]

Sounds hinky alright. One of the problems with lawyers is that they often take on cases in areas of the law that they know little or nothing about. It's very competitive and they need to make a living of course, but unfortunately in many such instances the client suffers because they either pay too much for the lawyer's time - when another lawyer wouldn't have needed to do so much research - or else they end up with inadequate or even incompetent representation, which is obviously far worse than paying too much.

Hopefully you're not in either one of those two situations. Anyway, good luck.

[LadyShea]

Thanks. The NC attorneys both state they are adoption specialists or whatever, but now that I understand ICPC a bit better, it's obvious that ours had never done an Interstate one before. She did the guardianship thinking it would trump everything else...and it would have HAD WE NOT STARTED THE ICPC PAPERWORK.

If we had just taken guardianship at the birthparents request and consent, and not started on the adoption paperwork, none of this would have happened. We could have then started adoption procedings after we were home.

[D. Scarlatti]

I probably shouldn't say this but any lawyer that thinks state law is going to trump federal law likely shouldn't have been allowed past second-year law school. But as I said each state individually adopted ICPC, so perhaps that is where some of the confusion arose. I'd be interested to know, once this thing shakes out. Keep us posted.