Legal types

[maddog]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

I probably shouldn't say this but any lawyer that thinks state law is going to trump federal law likely shouldn't have been allowed past second-year law school. But as I said each state individually adopted ICPC, so perhaps that is where some of the confusion arose. I'd be interested to know, once this thing shakes out. Keep us posted.

Eww, "choice-of-law" questions. Ick; I hate that subject. Sometimes, when you have both federal and state law on the same topic, federal law takes precedence, and other times, the state law does. It depends whether one is intended to preempt or not, or which one is strictly the one that "applies." Very complicated, very technical, very fact-intensive and fact-specific.

I'm not sure if an "interstate compact" is a federal or a state law. If it's like the "uniform law on X," then the model of the law or code is created by law commissions, and each state opts in or adopts the law, so that even though the law only has status as "state" law, the law will be the same, or nearly the same, in the jurisdictions (states) which adopt it.
#674

[D. Scarlatti]

Points well taken, maddog. I was operating under the assumption, according to what someone said to LS, that she was possibly in violation of federal law. Now I fail to see which federal law is implicated, since the ICPC isn't part of the United States Code, but rather a contract between and among individual states. Hinky, indeed.

[Stephen Maturin]

The ICPC is state law, which only serves to make the lawyers' conduct all the more egregious. I've got a vitriolic rant floating around in my head about how incompetent lawyers do at least as much (and probably more) damage every year than incompetent doctors, but now's not the time.

This whole mess sucks, LadyShea. Based on the limited information available in this thread, it's probably too soon to pull the lawsuit trigger. Legal malpractice claims, like all other professional negligence claims, are very expensive to prosecute. From a practical standpoint, litigation expenses would likely exceed your potential recovery at this point.

For now, the wisest course is to play ball with the NC ICPC authorities. When they're happy, everyone's happy.

Once everything is concluded and all three of you are home for keeps, you can consider asking your lawyer to reimburse you for the out-of-pocket expenses you incurred on account of the fuck-up. If the lawyer has any scruples at all, s/he'll offer to pay those expenses without being asked.

If, heaven forbid, a legal malpractice suit becomes necessary, I'll make it my personal mission to find y'all an experienced, competent attorney to handle the case. Also, it seems to me that the state attorney disciplinary authorities might be interested in hearing that certain lawyers are handling cases they're not competent to handle without bringing in co-counsel. That's a big fat no-no under the attorney ethics rules of all states.

[D. Scarlatti]

I'd still like to know what federal law she's been accused of violating.

[LadyShea]

They said ICPC is Federal jurisdiction or some shit.

[D. Scarlatti]

Another question, LS. Were the parental rights in NC successfully terminated, or is that the proceeding that's at question here, that it's somehow deficient because of the paper filings and so on?

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

I'd still like to know what federal law she's been accused of violating.

Good question. There's nothing remotely "federal" about the ICPC, AFAIK. It's a contract among the states accompanied by implementing legislation at the state level.

[D. Scarlatti]

Well, there are a couple of related federal laws, the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act and the Parental Kidnaping Prevention Act, but as far as I can tell from this here Harvard Journal on Legislation article, their application to interstate disputes over jurisdiction has to do with which of the two states involved may exercise what jurisdiction over which issues. Make your brain hurt in a hurry, this stuff.

[Stephen Maturin]

IIRC, the PKPA and the UCCJA (enacted in all states, I think) were aimed at a different issue. Parents get divorced in Ohio and the court awards custody of the kids to the mother. During a weekend visit, dad piles the kids into the car takes off for his brother's place in Kentucky. Father then petitions a Kentucky court for custody. Before PKPA and UCCJA, the Kentucky court was not required to enforce the Ohio custody decree because child custody orders, always being subject to modification, are not "final" for purposes of the Full Faith and Credit Clause.

ETA: And hell yes, this stuff does indeed get one's brain a-hurtin' in a hurry.

[D. Scarlatti]

Thank god I don't like people - otherwise I'd be cultivating an interest in Family Law!

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

Another question, LS. Were the parental rights in NC successfully terminated, or is that the proceeding that's at question here, that it's somehow deficient because of the paper filings and so on?

There are no problems with NC. The issue is with the receiving state, AL.

Here are the three problems

1. The birthmom's attorney had her sign the wrong consent form. She signed a prebirth form, rather than a post birth. That could have been grounds for contesting the adoption later. This has been handled, though. The birthmom signed an affadavit yesterday that she understands it was the wrong form, and meant to sign the post birth on January 5th so the revocation period need not start over. We are good with consent.

2. The social worker who interviewed the birthparents wrote the report in a sort of "fill in the blank" manner. They want it in narrative format. We have been unable to reach her, but should be no problem getting that Monday or Tuesday

3. We were not given the affadavit to sign that we had read and received copies of the medical and social history. We signed those yesterday, so we are good there

Anyway, AL said the baby had to be in NC so that AL could give official permission to come back. All of this paperwork could be done, and was done, regardless of the baby's location, but they refuse to make allowances.

We decided that it would be too expensive and useless to sue, however I want to do something. A system this inflexible isn't efficient, and all of this for an adoption where all interested parties are in 100% agreement and there is no acrimony. What the hell would have happened if we were a bunch of idiots, or the birthparents weren't as strong and commited to this baby and us?

Also, I wonder how the judge would react to them stating she had no jurisdiction and treatng her order as meaningless? Seems she might could be pissed off too.

[D. Scarlatti]

Thanks LS. It sounds like things are on their way to getting sorted out (albeit not without a giant pain in the ass for you guys).

Originally Posted by LadyShea

AL said the baby had to be in NC so that AL could give official permission to come back. All of this paperwork could be done, and was done, regardless of the baby's location, but they refuse to make allowances.

That makes sense - immigration works similarly. I know someone from the UK on a work visa here, and he has to physically either return there or visit a consulate in Canada once a year in order to formally request re-entry into the states.

We decided that it would be too expensive and useless to sue, however I want to do something.

Like Maturin said, you do have at least one avenue whereby you can seek to be reimbursed for your expenses pursuant to the NC fuck-ups.

Also, I wonder how the judge would react to them stating she had no jurisdiction and treating her order as meaningless? Seems she might could be pissed off too.

Oh yeah.

Here's hoping the remainder of the issues are cleaned up ASAP.

[LadyShea]

Frankie said the first leg of the flight was fine, Cade slept the whole way. I hate this, but it is what it is and will get handled.

I am just pissed off...mostly at the threatening calls to the b'mom...she never should have been involved except for signing the correct form and affadavit.

[LadyShea]

I swear this is getting more and more ridiculous.

So, the social worker rewrote the report in narrative format, ICPC Alabama called it acceptable. NOW, ICPC North Carolina is suddenly calling it unacceptable. They never even required the damned document in the first place...now an unrequired document is suddenly not acceptable?

WTF, why is the law such a fucking mess!

[Leesifer]

LadyShea, I'm so sorry this is all happening now. It all seemed to go so smoothly.

I just hope it all gets sorted out quickly for all your sakes.

[LadyShea]

Between us and the birthparents, everything is perfect. It's the states that are fucking shit up for no good reason.

[livius drusus]

What a bunch of bullshit this is. Are there any adoption orgs that can help you, maybe recommend some kind of advocate? What about those nimrod lawyers in NC? Could they be persuaded to not suck long enough to get this shit over and done with?

[Adam]

I haven't posted here yet since I know jack about adoption law, so I didn't have anythignuseful to say but, man, that sucks. Good luck.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

What a bunch of bullshit this is. Are there any adoption orgs that can help you, maybe recommend some kind of advocate? What about those nimrod lawyers in NC? Could they be persuaded to not suck long enough to get this shit over and done with?

I wish I knew who to call or what to do. Our NC lawyer is working on it, but we have already determined she is a worthless dumbass. Our AL lawyer can't do a damn thing about NC. Adoption organizations do not talk about this stuff at all, so no advocates that I am aware of (most everyone, I am finding out, ends up with some level of ICPC problems)

I have called our Social Worker here in AL, to see if she could offer suggestions or aid in any way.

Really, it's another one of those things that I can't do a damn thing about and it's killing me.

[lisarea]

I wish I had something to offer besides my sympathies, and a whole gut full of mute, helpless outrage.

Damn.

[LadyShea]

If I go on a killing spree, don't be surprised. Now, NC is requiring a brand new interview with the birthparents (one of whom moved over the weekend) because the social worker that did the report works at the Medicaid maternity clinic, not specifically for DHS, and so they won't accept it. So, now they have to coordinate a social worker and both birthparents to get together, do this interview, write the report and submit it. WHY??

[livius drusus]

Ditto was lisa said about the belly full of outrage, only mine turns out to be not so mute. Why the hell can't they at least give you a list of all the shit they want redone instead of finding new idiocies to spring on you a few times a day for a month? At every possible level there's nothing but suck here.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

Ditto was lisa said about the belly full of outrage, only mine turns out to be not so mute. Why the hell can't they at least give you a list of all the shit they want redone instead of finding new idiocies to spring on you a few times a day for a month? At every possible level there's nothing but suck here.

I can't even find the clause or section of the ICPC they are using to justify any of this!!

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by lisarea

I wish I had something to offer besides my sympathies, and a whole gut full of mute, helpless outrage.

Damn.

Maybe you can beg your boyfriend to help me write a letter to the NC Bar association about the useless attorney as well as some kind of complaint to the ICPC Officers?

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Maybe you can beg your boyfriend to help me write a letter to the NC Bar association about the useless attorney as well as some kind of complaint to the ICPC Officers?

Or maybe I could just conspicuously practice some wicked kung fu moves to get him all pre-intimidated before I bring it up.