Abortion: A case study

[D. Scarlatti]

A 35-year-old mother of 14 was arrested on a charge of physical abuse of a child late Thursday after three of her children were found at an abandoned house they used as a "safe house" when she abused them, according to the Milwaukee Police Department.

The woman, whom police would not identify, remained in police custody this morning. The children were taken into protective custody, said Anne E. Schwartz, police spokeswoman. The women’s children range in age from 3 to 20, Schwartz said. Six were removed from her custody earlier and she is now pregnant, Schwartz said.

The woman called police around 10 p.m. Thursday to report that three of her children, 9-year-old twin boys and a 6-year-old boy, were missing, police said. An older child led police to the abandoned house on the 3500 block of Brown St., where they found the three children, Schwartz said. The children had bruises and scars and told police their mother beat them with her fists, broomsticks and belts, Schwartz said. The twins and the 6-year-old have different last names, she said.

Mother of 14 arrested after kids found in 'safe house'

[Crumb]

Hasn't she ever heard of the pill?

[godfry n. glad]

14?

And she abuses them?

She needs to get a clue or a tubal ligation.

[D. Scarlatti]

Going on 15. She's knocked up again.

[username]

The title shouldn't be about abortion, but about forced sterilization.

[Crumb]

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

14?

And she abuses them?

At times like this the Chinese government's procreation policies don't seem all that crazy.

[Jesus Christ]

She needs her legs sewn together is what she needs. Jesus lady.

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally Posted by username

The title shouldn't be about abortion, but about forced sterilization.

I considered it but forced sterilization just isn't much of an issue anymore.

Although Buck v. Bell has never been expressly overruled ...

[D. Scarlatti]

Another side of the story:

By late Friday, people close to the woman raised doubts about the children's claims, describing the mother as straitlaced and hardworking.

If anything, they said, the 35-year-old mother may be guilty of neglect - she works 16-hour shifts as a certified nursing assistant ...

"That lady has bent over backward, crying sleepless nights, working double shifts, keeping her house together to get her kids back, for her kids to turn on her like that . . . they're just ungrateful kids," said Valencia Ward, who said she's known the woman for 18 years. * * *

"I just totally think that's not true," [the woman's landlord] said of the abuse allegations. "Every time I would go over there, the kids were always clean. Their room was fixed so nice. They had matching bed sets, beautiful curtains, plenty of toys."

... some friends question story

Ungrateful little brats!

[username]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

Another side of the story:

By late Friday, people close to the woman raised doubts about the children's claims, describing the mother as straitlaced and hardworking.

If anything, they said, the 35-year-old mother may be guilty of neglect - she works 16-hour shifts as a certified nursing assistant ...

"That lady has bent over backward, crying sleepless nights, working double shifts, keeping her house together to get her kids back, for her kids to turn on her like that . . . they're just ungrateful kids," said Valencia Ward, who said she's known the woman for 18 years. * * *

"I just totally think that's not true," [the woman's landlord] said of the abuse allegations. "Every time I would go over there, the kids were always clean. Their room was fixed so nice. They had matching bed sets, beautiful curtains, plenty of toys."

... some friends question story

Ungrateful little brats!

There is always 2 sides to a story and I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that the truth lies somewhere inbetween. However, 15 kids is a bit excessive. I am not judging strictly on the number of children, although I admit 15 kids does offend my sensibilities a bit.

I am all for people having sex as often as they want with as many partners as they want. Their business. I am all for people having as many children as they want. Their business.

Where I draw the line is when a person CLEARLY cannot provide financially or emotionally for thier children and continue to have more. This could mean I draw the line when a person has 1 child or when they have 20.

So, this woman works 16 hours a day. Well, good. On the surface this appears responsible. She has mouths to feed and bodies to clothe and she is working her butt off trying to do it. Great. But CLEARLY she doesn't have the time to meet their emotional needs. Equally clearly is that even as a RN she doesn't make enough money to support 15 kids. I mean how much can she be working if she has had 15 kids by age 35? She has had children removed by the state. Because I am related to a social worker who has had children removed from parents I am not ignorant of the fact that sometimes the state removes children from a home where they are better off than they are in foster care, but as a very general rule if the state steps in there is usually something amis in the family.

I recall a case of a polygamist with a zillion wives and kids being covered by a new magazine show. At first I supported the polygamist because he seemed like a nice guy and his wives were interviewed and seemed OK with the situation. Well, who am I to judge? To each their own. Then it came out that these 'wives' were collecting welfare as single mothers. I drew the line.

If one can support a family with multiple wives and a tribe of children, fine. If one needs to rely upon public assistance to do it, I draw the line. It is one thing to be down on one's luck and utilize public services for awhile, it is another to choose a lifestyle that makes one permanently dependant upon it.

This woman appears to fall into the category of biting off far more than she can chew and state intervention has been required on multiple occasions.

Sterilize the woman already. I don't care if she is mentally ill, that just makes the sterilization more necessary. She isn't a mother, she is an obsessive, compulsive breeder and at some point society needs to say 'enough is enough' and intervene. I don't know at what point the line should be drawn, but I think this woman presents a case that is over the line.

[lisarea]

Originally Posted by username

Equally clearly is that even as a RN she doesn't make enough money to support 15 kids.

Just a nitpick here. A certified nursing assistant is not an RN.

[godfry n. glad]

She has 14 kids and works 16 hours a day, yet she's pregnant again?

She must be boffing somebody at work.

(Note to self: Never, but never, open a closed door in a health care facility.)

And, I don't think she's an RN, but a CNA, which make about 1/3 what an RN does.

[username]

Originally Posted by lisarea

Just a nitpick here. A certified nursing assistant is not an RN.

Quite correct, you and Godfry win the 'spot username's lack of reading comprehension award'.

A CNA is essentially a minimum wage earning bedpan cleaner. However, that simply reinforces my point that it isn't possible to provide financially for 15 kids on such an income. Even an RN couldn't do it and I doubt a doctor could either.

I believe this woman is mentally ill, I see no other explanation. Doesn't mean there is no other explanation, just that if I were a gambling man I would bet big on her being mentally ill. It isn't right for the state to allow a mentally ill person to slit their wrists anymore than it is right for the state to let a mentally ill breeder continue breeding. I mean, <politician> THINK OF THE CHILDREN</politician>

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally Posted by username

Sterilize the woman already. I don't care if she is mentally ill, that just makes the sterilization more necessary. She isn't a mother, she is an obsessive, compulsive breeder and at some point society needs to say 'enough is enough' and intervene. I don't know at what point the line should be drawn, but I think this woman presents a case that is over the line.

I'm not sure how serious you are, but there was a case here a couple of years ago involving what you might call a serial deadbeat dad. He had several children by several different mothers and efforts to force him to maintain his support payments had proved futile. So the court ordered him to not reproduce anymore, under threat of various penalties, including incarceration if I recall correctly.

So your policy advocacy isn't completely outside the realm of possibility.

[username]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

I'm not sure how serious you are,

I am completely serious since I have no ability to affect public policy. If I were an elected official I would likely find the idea offensive. If I understand the case with this woman accurately I would have no problem forcing her to be sterilized, but I would want a law that applied only to her, which is unconstitutional.

but there was a case here a couple of years ago involving what you might call a serial deadbeat dad. He had several children by several different mothers and efforts to force him to maintain his support payments had proved futile. So the court ordered him to not reproduce anymore, under threat of various penalties, including incarceration if I recall correctly.

This is what a more rational friend suggested for this woman as well. Take away all her kids and order her to have no more under legal penalty, but leave her reproductive organs intact.

So your policy advocacy isn't completely outside the realm of possibility.

Yeah, this is one of those cases where I believe something needs to be done, but I have no idea what. Don't really want any new laws created, would prefer to find a solution within the existing legal framework.

[Dragar]

Poor woman. Poor kids.

What a mess.

[mountain_hare]

The dumb bitch should keep her legs closed. And the stupid bastard knocking her up needs to be castrated quick smart. People mention that the kids are 'ungrateful', but if the woman didn't want to work 16+ hours a day, then she shouldn't have played 'hide the salami' so often. Just imagine how much money she is leeched out of American taxpayers in the form of child welfare.

14 kids... that's just sick. That's over 10 years she's spent being pregnant (if we assume that each pregnancy was 9 months long, and she didn't have twins). When eugenics becomes a cool thing, people like her need to be weeded out of the gene pool.

[username]

Originally Posted by mountain_hare

The dumb bitch should keep her legs closed.

Damn you are one cold son or daughter of a bitch. Not that I disagree or anything.

[mountain_hare]

Damn you are one cold son or daughter of a bitch. Not that I disagree or anything.

Perhaps I am a little cold. But if you don't want to get preggers, then don't have sex. You think that this woman would have worked out that sex = preggers = babies, after the 3rd time she got pregnant (or the 5th time, if she's a Yankee).

[username]

Originally Posted by mountain_hare

Perhaps I am a little cold. But if you don't want to get preggers, then don't have sex. You think that this woman would have worked out that sex = preggers = babies, after the 3rd time she got pregnant (or the 5th time, if she's a Yankee).

Or just go on the pill or insist that the losers who turned away from farm animals toward her use condoms.

If more women would be like Ensign Steve the world would be a good place to live. I love Ensign Steve. She is sooo cool. Yes, I am drunk, like the rest of you are supposed to be, but I really do love Ensign Steve

* username falls off bar stool.

I looooooooooooooove you Ensign Stweve.

[Ensign Steve]

So I guess this isn't the best time to mention that I think Adora is the absolute shit?

[Adora]

Originally Posted by mountain_hare

You think that this woman would have worked out that sex = preggers = babies

Except for the fact that this is completely faulty logic. Or have you never heard of a menstrual cycle? Because I'm sure she only had sex 3-5 times in her life. Yeeeep...

[username]

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

So I guess this isn't the best time to mention that I think Adora is the absolute shit?

I have absolutely no problem, whatsoever, with you saying Adora is absolute shit. In fact this is just one more thing we have in common you kinky... naw nevermind, I am overusing the term already.

[Ensign Steve]

Imagine if you got pregnant every time you had sex.