Catholic town?

ManM · #1 03-02-2006, 06:25 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/02/cat....ap/index.html

Cliffs notes: Rich guy decides that he wants to build a town that will be wholesome. There will be no porn, abortion, or birth control sold in this town.

My initial reaction: good for him. However, this will certainly be a test to see just how much "freedom" we have in America.

TomJoe · #2 03-02-2006, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by article

"This is un-American," Kissling said. "I don't think in a democratic society you can have a legally organized township that will seek to have any kind of public service whatsoever and try to restrict the constitutional rights of citizens."

What happens if the people specifically move to this township, based on these principles/potential? Is it un-American to decide that your constitutional right to view porn on cable is a bunch of shit and be happy to have it taken away from you because you want it to be removed?

D. Scarlatti · #3 03-02-2006, 06:45 PM

Catholic Town, that's the name of my next album, on Raving Orangeman Records and Tapes.

Sock Puppet · #4 03-02-2006, 06:50 PM

If it really is built up from scratch, with everybody moving into it by choice with full disclosure of what to expect, I don't see a problem with it. In fact, I'd rather see Monaghan spending his money to build such a voluntary community, instead of using it to further the aim of enforcing his theocratic visions on the unwilling. Maybe shitheads like Dobson and Robertson can follow suit.

D. Scarlatti · #5 03-02-2006, 06:52 PM

There's something ironic about a purveyor of junk food and soda starting up a "wholesome" town.

erimir · #6 03-02-2006, 07:21 PM

Except that not everyone who lives there WILL have a choice.

Clearly most of the adults wouldn't buy contraception anyway, but their kids don't have a choice in the matter.

Of course, a lot of people would say that parents have the right to restrict their children's access to porn, contraceptives and abortion (and probably sex education too).

Fortunately for the kids, with a car you can get out of that shithole for a little while.

And even if you have a choice, if you move there and decide to sell contraceptives or provide abortions, on what grounds will the town government have the ability to stop you? If it has been ruled unconstitutional to restrict those activities, then he can't do anything. Just cuz he privately owns the property doesn't mean that the town government is above the Constitution.

Sock Puppet · #7 03-02-2006, 07:38 PM

Kids are pretty much stuck with their parents' moral pronouncements as it is. I know before I could buy naughty stuff on my own, it was out of my reach as effectively as if it were completely unavailable. And I predict that stores in the adjoining towns with contraceptives, porn, etc. will enjoy a booming business.

ManM · #8 03-02-2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erimir

And even if you have a choice, if you move there and decide to sell contraceptives or provide abortions, on what grounds will the town government have the ability to stop you? If it has been ruled unconstitutional to restrict those activities, then he can't do anything. Just cuz he privately owns the property doesn't mean that the town government is above the Constitution.

The clever catch is that it won't be a matter of civil law. The guy owns all of the property. He will sell it for residential zoning, but will lease it for commercial purposes. As such, he can write restrictions into the lease agreement. If a company chooses to sell birth control, it would be a breach of contract on their part, and he could revoke the lease.

cappuccino · #9 03-02-2006, 07:41 PM

Where's the humanist, atheistic town? We need to build one somewhere nice and warm too. NOT New Hampshire!

ManM · #10 03-02-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cappuccino

Where's the humanist, atheistic town? We need to build one somewhere nice and warm too. NOT New Hampshire!

Don't you already have California?

Clutch Munny · #11 03-02-2006, 07:59 PM

As if the shitty food quality and the Operation Rescue financial support wasn't reason enough to avoid Domino's like the plague.

TomJoe · #12 03-02-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erimir

... but their kids don't have a choice in the matter.

Yes, think of the children ... denied their civil liberty to get Pay Per View Porn! Horror of horrors!

Clutch Munny · #13 03-02-2006, 08:36 PM

Now, can a rich Islamic pizza magnate build a town in which selling the Bible is a breach of contract?

Or would this jackass...

Quote:

Gov. Jeb Bush, at the site's groundbreaking earlier this month, lauded the development as a new kind of town where faith and freedom will merge to create a community of like-minded citizens.

...not be turning the sod for that "community of like-minded citizens"?

TomJoe · #14 03-02-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

Now, can a rich Islamic pizza magnate build a town in which selling the Bible is a breach of contract?

Was anything said about not selling the Koran in that article?

Clutch Munny · #15 03-02-2006, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomJoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

Now, can a rich Islamic pizza magnate build a town in which selling the Bible is a breach of contract?

Was anything said about not selling the Koran in that article?

I don't understand your question. Of course the answer is "No". Did you think I was characterizing the town plan as inherently anti-Islamic?

Now. Is there any principle at issue in this case that would make it somehow less acceptable for a rich Islamic pizza magnate build a town in which selling the Bible is a breach of contract? That, again, was my question -- though it was not specifically directed at you, TJ.

TomJoe · #16 03-02-2006, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomJoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

Now, can a rich Islamic pizza magnate build a town in which selling the Bible is a breach of contract?

Was anything said about not selling the Koran in that article?

I don't understand your question. Of course the answer is "No". Did you think I was characterizing the town plan as inherently anti-Islamic?

Now. Is there any principle at issue in this case that would make it somehow less acceptable for a rich Islamic pizza magnate build a town in which selling the Bible is a breach of contract? That, again, was my question -- though it was not specifically directed at you, TJ.

Equating not selling Korans to not selling condoms is farcical IMO.

Clutch Munny · #17 03-02-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomJoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomJoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

Now, can a rich Islamic pizza magnate build a town in which selling the Bible is a breach of contract?

Was anything said about not selling the Koran in that article?

I don't understand your question. Of course the answer is "No". Did you think I was characterizing the town plan as inherently anti-Islamic?

Now. Is there any principle at issue in this case that would make it somehow less acceptable for a rich Islamic pizza magnate build a town in which selling the Bible is a breach of contract? That, again, was my question -- though it was not specifically directed at you, TJ.

Equating not selling Korans to not selling condoms is farcical IMO.

There's a great deal farcical about Monaghan's endeavour, no doubt, though nobody except you has made that particular proposal.

In any case, I assume that it's precisely because there's no sharp distinction to be had between the sex and violence depicted in the Bible and that depicted on cable that the Constitution is taken to protect all of them. Hence my question (apparently so vexing): Is there any principle at issue in this case that would make it somehow less acceptable for a rich Islamic pizza magnate build a town in which selling the Bible is a breach of contract?

Let's make it very, very simple: Is it okay to ban certain otherwise legal cable channels to legal homeowners in the proposed way because the lease arrangement legitimately skirts constitutional protections? If yes, then the answer to my first question about Bible sales is prima facie 'No'; there'd be no problem with banning the sale of the Bible (or the Koran for that matter). If no, however, then what is the justification?

ManM · #18 03-02-2006, 09:40 PM

Personally, I don't see a problem with the owner of the land determining what business can take place on his land, be it a ban on selling bibles or porn. Then again, I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to invent a "freedom of distribution" to go along with "freedom of speech".

Adora · #19 03-02-2006, 10:47 PM

I love the way the phrase "wholesome" is so synonymous with "violation of basic rights". Is he also going to include the witch hunts, slavery and child abuse that "wholesome" historical Catholic societies are so well known for?

The hilarious part is that if he was a Muslim trying to set up an enclave goverened by Shari'a law, he'd probably be kicked out of the country.

godfry n. glad · #20 03-03-2006, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sock Puppet

Kids are pretty much stuck with their parents' moral pronouncements as it is. I know before I could buy naughty stuff on my own, it was out of my reach as effectively as if it were completely unavailable. And I predict that stores in the adjoining towns with contraceptives, porn, etc. will enjoy a booming business.

Yeah... That will be just like having a "dry" town abutting a town where alcohol is sold to buyers of legal age. Those able to walk, ride or drive to the nearest outlet outside of town should be able to find all that and return to town with it.

I can just see it.... Within a stone's throw of one road entering town is Roxov Nude Girls! Girls! Girls!, another road would have Lube's Intimate Raincoats outlet just outside of town and a third would have the Zygote-B-Gone Clinic within view of the city limit sign.

I suspect the town might become a baby mill for the adoption industry, too. Maybe they could have their own town adoption agent, a public servant city employee.

ms_ann_thrope · #21 03-03-2006, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sock Puppet

And I predict that stores in the adjoining towns with contraceptives, porn, etc. will enjoy a booming business.

I shall start on the business plan for ms_ann_thrope's Catholic Town-adjacent SmutWorld Enterprises ASAP.

erimir · #22 03-03-2006, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomJoe

Yes, think of the children ... denied their civil liberty to get Pay Per View Porn! Horror of horrors!

And contraceptives...

And you know, that approach doesn't really stop sex. It just stops safe sex.

But it would be interesting to see the reaction, by contrast, to a town set up like this in a non-Christian way. In other words, an atheist town or an Islamic town, as mentioned. Or a communist town, whatever. I wonder...

godfry n. glad · #23 03-03-2006, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomJoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by article

"This is un-American," Kissling said. "I don't think in a democratic society you can have a legally organized township that will seek to have any kind of public service whatsoever and try to restrict the constitutional rights of citizens."

What happens if the people specifically move to this township, based on these principles/potential? Is it un-American to decide that your constitutional right to view porn on cable is a bunch of shit and be happy to have it taken away from you because you want it to be removed?

Deciding to not exercise your right to view porn on cable is one thing, deciding that everybody else will as well is another thing entirely. Don't subscribe to cable that provides it. Don't watch the channel it's on if it is provided. Block it out if it is provided. There are plenty of ready remedies before one needs ban it entirely. If you want it removed, remove it for just yourself.

The Supreme Court in my state has decided that prohibiting nude dancing is a limitation of the right of free expression. Monaghan's little dream world probably wouldn't fly here because of that.

If a resident in this town decides to sell porn out of his/her home, what're they going to do?

Just out of interest, if the "university" sponsors a travelling art exhibit which includes nudes, will they have to be covered during their stay in Ave Maria? Will the classical statues be covered a la Ashcroft? And ballet...now there's a lascivious pandering to prurient interests if I've ever seen one.

Carnivale Ed · #24 03-03-2006, 12:35 PM

What's the translation of Utopia again?

TomJoe · #25 03-03-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

Just out of interest, if the "university" sponsors a travelling art exhibit which includes nudes, will they have to be covered during their stay in Ave Maria?

IIRC godfry, the US government has already made the distinction between pornography and art. That's why children can go into art galleries which may contain nudes but they still can't go pick up a copy of Hustler.

I've thought about this, and to answer Clutch Munny's question ... no, if Muslims wanted to do something similar ... let them. If people are willing to refuse certain civil liberties, up front, I say let them. If they're adults they know what they're getting into and should be able to make such committments if they so choose.

For instance, if I go to work for a company and then decide to reveal company secrets (the nature of which I knew I could not reveal before signing on) and subsequently get fired for it, can I claim that my right to free speech was violated? Seems sort of ridiculous.