What do you call it?

[LadyShea]

I think holding elections in New Orleans when at least 1/3 of the (poor, black) citizens have been unable to come back- because there is no housing or transportation for them- and not providing satellite polls or some other means to vote, is disenfranchisement. Absentee ballots won't work either, as the government doens't know who ended up where let alone has addresses...one child was just reunited with his folks this month! Anyway, several at IIDB disagree with me.

What do you call it?

[viscousmemories]

Well tfd.com says disenfranchisement means "deprive of the right to vote", so that seems accurate to me. I suppose it could be argued that they don't have a right to vote given their dislocation from the area, but I think that depends on Louisiana's* residency requirements.





For the grammar nazis: Is that an appropriate use of the apostrophe?

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

Well tfd.com says disenfranchisement means "deprive of the right to vote", so that seems accurate to me. I suppose it could be argued that they don't have a right to vote given their dislocation from the area, but I think that depends on Louisiana's* residency requirements.

But that dislocation is not voluntary. Doesn't that...I don't know, change things regardless of the requirements (I believe 90-days in the district is required)?

The US set up satellite polls for Iraqis living in the US, why not for our own displaced citizens?

[viscousmemories]

Yeah I don't know. It's a good question.

[John Carter]

This is Louisiana we are talking about. Corruption and graft are pretty much a way of life there.

[LadyShea]

Oh yes, Louisiana is known for corruption. I was just curious because a few people on II basically said "Sucks to be a poor, stupid diplaced person"

[Julie]

Well it does suck to be poor displaced person. They shouldn't be furthur punished for it tho.

I don't see why some system can't be set up. Its stupid to stop these people from voting.

[Clutch Munny]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Oh yes, Louisiana is known for corruption. I was just curious because a few people on II basically said "Sucks to be a poor, stupid diplaced person"

What? That political attitude at II? Home of Rand-felchers and Libertards?

I'm shocked.

I've given up reading the effluent of most of IIDB's PD lifers. Seeing them spinning out their theories on what's wrong with American politics is much like watching someone whack himself on the noggin with a rolling pin, all the while concocting theories for why his head aches. ("Must be too much political correctness!")

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Julie

Well it does suck to be poor displaced person. They shouldn't be furthur punished for it tho.

I don't see why some system can't be set up. Its stupid to stop these people from voting.

The question does arise, however, as to whether the dislocated are considered to be residents of wherever it is they have been dislocated. If they have voting rights there, and wish to exercise them, then they are no longer residents of New Orleans. However, if they do not wish residency in their new locale, and fully intend to return to New Orleans, then, by all means, they should be granted the opportunity to apply for an absentee ballot....but they should thereby lose any ability to vote in their new, and presumably, temporary locale.

We've had several displaced individuals and families publicly state that they do not intend to return to New Orleans. To extend to these folks voting rights in New Orleans is not advisable, nor legal.

[Julie]

Well ya if the people have no intention of moving back I agree they don't and shouldnt have voting rights. The questions is what about those that are only out of area because they have to be?

Just cause poor joe smoes house was covered in 8 feet of crappy water and he can;t move back into it yet so he's staying with dear grandma 3 states over...

It the people in those situations that should have the right to vote.

But how do you distinguish between the two? Thats the problem. I can see *WHY* these people are not getting to vote.

Life isnt fair, but thats just the way it is.

[Stephen Maturin]

The decision to hold a city election on April 22 isn't disenfranchisement per se, of course, but it certainly involves significant potential for de facto disenfranchisement. As godfrey correctly noted, displaced persons who have no intention of returning to Louisiana should be taken out of the equation. For people who do intend to return, the questions become whether efforts to get the word out regarding Louisiana's special absentee voting procedures have been successful, whether those procedures are adequate and, if so, whether people will take advantage of them. Time will tell, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Clutch Munny

What? That political attitude at II? Home of Rand-felchers and Libertards?

I'm shocked.

I've given up reading the effluent of most of IIDB's PD lifers. Seeing them spinning out their theories on what's wrong with American politics is much like watching someone whack himself on the noggin with a rolling pin, all the while concocting theories for why his head aches. ("Must be too much political correctness!")

[California Tanker]

If I was given the opportunity to mail an absentee ballot from Iraq for California elections, I don't see any reason either moral or logistical as to why displaced persons should be unable to vote. Is there an absentee ballot system, yes/no? If yes, they are not disenfranchised.

And that's before, as has been pointed out, one takes into account whether they have registered under residency requirements in their temporary homes.

NTM

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by California Tanker

If I was given the opportunity to mail an absentee ballot from Iraq for California elections, I don't see any reason either moral or logistical as to why displaced persons should be unable to vote. Is there an absentee ballot system, yes/no? If yes, they are not disenfranchised.

The government apparently can't find a huge percentage them, because they don't all have permanent addresses. Don't you need a recorded address to even inform them of elections?

And that's before, as has been pointed out, one takes into account whether they have registered under residency requirements in their temporary homes.

Sure, if they have decided to become residents of their new locales, they should not vote in New Orleans...however I don't think most people realize that some, possibly even most, of these people are still in shelters and motels or bunking in with generous family members or strangers. How on Earth could many of them afford new housing, deposits, etc. when they lost everything?

[Clutch Munny]

Something as mere as the expenditure of money should make it possible to find a substantial percentage of displaced/refugee residents. For a nation so willing to spend the equivalent of the GDP of Scandanavia on "exporting democracy" to other countries, coughing up a few million to set an example at home should be trivial.

Maybe spread a rumour that former NO residents have been checking out books on Marxism from libraries across the South.* All that PATRIOT machinery should find them pretty fast.



*I know, "libraries across the South". It's only a pretend scenario, after all.

[BigBlue2]

If a displaced person is eligible and registered to vote in the district and can't vote due to bureaucratic incompetence, then said person is being disenfranchised. Simple.

Originally Posted by LadyShea

The government apparently can't find a huge percentage them, because they don't all have permanent addresses. Don't you need a recorded address to even inform them of elections?

Most of the displaced person went to neighbouring states, especially Texas, did they not? Run an advertising campaign in the Texas media to inform the displaced people of the election and mail the ballots to the town halls of Houston, Dallas, Austin and so on. Do the same with other states where the displaced persons are loacted. You're obviously not going to reach all of them, but I would estimate that you'll reach a significant percentage.

[California Tanker]

From the article linked by Stephen: "full-page ads were placed in newspapers around the country to tell New Orleans residents about the election"

It seems that they are making some form of effort to let people know that the election is going on.

NTM

[Angakuk]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

The government apparently can't find a huge percentage them, because they don't all have permanent addresses. Don't you need a recorded address to even inform them of elections?

Your question seems to imply that the government has an obligation to personally contact every registered voter and inform them of an upcoming election. Years ago, when I was an out of state college student, I maintained my status as a registered voter in my home state. The state made no effort to locate me and inform me of upcoming elections. It was my responsiblity to be informed about my my home state and city politics and request an absentee ballot if I desired to vote. It seems to me that those displaced persons who are registered voters are in much the same situation. The fact that their homes are uninhabitable or non-existent doesn't seem to materially alter the facts. The address still exists and is still their address of legal residency, for voting purposes. This is true even if they are using a different mailing address.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by Angakuk

Your question seems to imply that the government has an obligation to personally contact every registered voter and inform them of an upcoming election. Years ago, when I was an out of state college student, I maintained my status as a registered voter in my home state. The state made no effort to locate me and inform me of upcoming elections. It was my responsiblity to be informed about my my home state and city politics and request an absentee ballot if I desired to vote. It seems to me that those displaced persons who are registered voters are in much the same situation. The fact that their homes are uninhabitable or non-existent doesn't seem to materially alter the facts. The address still exists and is still their address of legal residency, for voting purposes. This is true even if they are using a different mailing address.

I consider this a special circumstance, not in any way akin to a person going off to college, and yes, feel the government is obligated to help these people vote. This is the largest displacement of citizens after the worst natural disaster in the US, billions of dollars have been donated by people all over the world to aid these people....surely some of it could be spent to help them maintain their basic right to vote.

[Megatron]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

What do you call it?

I call it horseshit.

[Sock Puppet]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

I suppose it could be argued that they don't have a right to vote given their dislocation from the area, but I think that depends on Louisiana's* residency requirements.

For the grammar nazis: Is that an appropriate use of the apostrophe?

Sorry I'm late. Yes, alles in Ordnung. Carry on, citizen.

[Tanda]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

I consider this a special circumstance, not in any way akin to a person going off to college, and yes, feel the government is obligated to help these people vote. This is the largest displacement of citizens after the worst natural disaster in the US, billions of dollars have been donated by people all over the world to aid these people....surely some of it could be spent to help them maintain their basic right to vote.

I concur. Apples & oranges.

Also, though, how would we know if the people who say that they intend to return actually will return? It would be fairly simple for some displaced N.O. citizens to lie about that just to get the chance to vote. Why should't all displaced citizens have the opportunity to vote? They are the people most familiar with the area, leadership, and citizens, afterall.

[LadyShea]

Also, though, how would we know if the people who say that they intend to return actually will return? It would be fairly simple for some displaced N.O. citizens to lie about that just to get the chance to vote. Why should't all displaced citizens have the opportunity to vote? They are the people most familiar with the area, leadership, and citizens, afterall.

The way I see it, they would still be in New Orleans if they hadn't been displaced. We have no way of knowing of their intent now, at this point, but still they should get to vote in this election.

I am afraid the rebuilding is happening in such a way that the poor will not be able to come back, and will be permanently "displaced", so the whole issue may be moot. I don't foresee any of the vulture developers and government contracted construction companies, that are capitalizing on this, building low cost housing.

[Tanda]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

I am afraid the rebuilding is happening in such a way that the poor will not be able to come back, and will be permanently "displaced", so the whole issue may be moot.

You may have hit the nail on the head with that one.

I don't foresee any of the vulture developers and government contracted construction companies, that are capitalizing on this, building low cost housing.

Again, I concur. The city won't waste time putting together housing for citizens who won't be able to pay their way in. They're going to need people with money who can invest and bring money back into the city.

There are so many, many issues that N.O. will be dealing with in the next few years. It may never be the same. I've been very impressed with the spirit of those who returned. They've managed to breathe life back into a rather drowned city.

[LadyShea]

They're going to need people with money who can invest and bring money back into the city.

Right, but that brings up a whole 'nuther issue. Who is going to work in the businesses if only the affluent can afford to live there? My dad travels to NO all the time, and he said most restaurants are only open for a few hours a day, because they have nobody to work there. Yeah, the business owner could afford to stay in town/fix up his place...but his dishwashers and buspeople can't.

What a mess.

[Tanda]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Right, but that brings up a whole 'nuther issue. Who is going to work in the businesses if only the affluent can afford to live there? My dad travels to NO all the time, and he said most restaurants are only open for a few hours a day, because they have nobody to work there. Yeah, the business owner could afford to stay in town/fix up his place...but his dishwashers and buspeople can't.

What a mess.

So true. For a while there were some fast food chains who were offering sign on bonus's but there really wasn't anyplace for people to stay. A lot of work is being done to clean up the area and to make it habitable again, but it's going to take so much money and so much time.

Luckily, there has been an incredible amount of help from other states with funding, loans, equipment, clean up & construction crews, etc. Not to mention those who opened their homes to keep the displaced citizens.