The American Penny

Crumb · 04-24-2006, 04:35 PM

Quote:

A recent story in The New York Times said it now costs the U.S. Mint 1.4 cents to make a penny: 0.8 cents for the metal and 0.6 cents for associated costs.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld...l/14414893.htm

Does anyone have any good reason why the US should continue to mint the penny?

Sock Puppet · 04-24-2006, 04:47 PM

If the penny is eliminated, then all cash transactions will have to be in multiples of $0.05. Since it wouldn't be fair for cash sales to carry a different price tag than other types, that means every sale will have to be rounded to nickels. Considering that most states have a sales tax, you just know that every transaction's sales tax will be rounded up, not down. It may not seem like much per transaction, but ultimately it means that everyone's out-of-pocket expenses will be increased, probably significantly.

livius drusus · 04-24-2006, 05:10 PM

BURN 'EM! BURN 'EM!!1 :mob:

Crumb · 04-24-2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sock Puppet

Since it wouldn't be fair for cash sales to carry a different price tag than other types, that means every sale will have to be rounded to nickels.

Why wouldn't it be fair to only round cash transactions? It seems like this would just be an understood cost of dealing in cash.

ceptimus · 04-24-2006, 05:32 PM

In Britain, when a coin starts to cost more to make than its face value, it is redesigned or eliminated. I don't know why they use this rule - it seems rather arbitary, but that is what they do.

Fairly recently, all our 'silver' (coloured) coins were redesigned to make them smaller. The new 10p is smaller than the old 5p, and the 5p is ridiculously tiny.

The copper coins were also changed. Now they are steel disks plated with a thin layer of copper, so you can pick up modern british copper coins with a magnet!

Leesifer · 04-24-2006, 05:34 PM

Those poxy 5ps are a right pain. So small, you can never find them in your purse or pocket until it's too late :mutter:

Actual size (more or less), but the 5p doesn't have a hole in it :rarrow:

Crumb · 04-24-2006, 05:47 PM

The US penny is copper plated zinc.

Sock Puppet · 04-24-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumb

Why wouldn't it be fair to only round cash transactions? It seems like this would just be an understood cost of dealing in cash.

I suppose because it would be seen as regressive -- lower-income folks would disproportionately deal in cash. Also, currently cash is the least expensive way to operate. Ask any small business that's barely making it why they don't take credit cards/checks/EFT debits.

Ari · 04-24-2006, 06:29 PM

Interesting arguments.

Although the removal of the penny could facilitate the adoption of a $1 coin, since cash drawers wouldn't need any major redesigning. (although I guess many cash machines would need a computer upgrade to ignore the penny and round the totals.)

Crumb · 04-24-2006, 07:07 PM

What do you mean by cash machines? I don't know of any kind of vending machine that deals in pennies.

In this state there is no sales tax so it would be easy for most businesses to just price everything to the nearest 5 cents. I can see how the sales tax might cause problems, but there could be rules for retailers to round down and then they would just have to eat the cost. So cash transactions would get a little more expensive, but they would still be cheaper than credit transactions.

Ari · 04-24-2006, 08:42 PM

Maybe cash machine isn't the right word, but the things people at stores punch numbers into and then a drawer pops open if the buyer gets back change.

Beth · 04-24-2006, 08:46 PM

cash register

Ari · 04-24-2006, 08:49 PM

Aha, that's the word.

Legs · 04-24-2006, 09:03 PM

No penny? what do they do, round up? round down? how do you calculate tax & interest. You need that penny. :sadcheer:

We don't have a bill smaller than $5 in Canada, we are the home of the Loonie and the Twoonie (toonie)

pescifish · 04-24-2006, 11:17 PM

Pink Taco!
No, that's not how I voted in the poll.

I'd like to ditch the penny itself, but keep prices and sales transactions (those including tax, for example) to be calculated to the 100th of a dollar. If the sale is handled in a non-cash manner, then it can be done "to the penny", but if it's a cash transaction then round to the nearest $.05 unit.

I don't like dealing with pennies themselves, but since we seem to be able to handle fractions of a cent in our tax percentage calculations, why can't we do the same for the 100th of a dollar and then only deal with 5 cent in terms of the physical units?

godfry n. glad · 04-24-2006, 11:33 PM

But....but...what would all those carnie types selling scissors that cut through coins do? What about all those penny-smashing souvenir machines at major sightseeing locales?

The penny is not considered to be "legal tender", thanks to a Supreme Court judgement on paying debts with pennies only, so they can be destroyed during demos or used as souvenirs without potential legal consequences.

As for cash registers, we already have 50 cent pieces and coin dollars (Susan B. Anthony and Sacajewea both come to mind as recent residents of the dollar coin).

Dingfod · 04-25-2006, 12:05 AM

One local convenience store chain has virtually done away with pennies, Quik Trip. They don't consider one or two cents to be worth the time it takes to count them out, so if you owe $2.52 for a soda and a hotdog, they'll take your fiver and give you $2.50 in change. They do a volumnous business at nearly every location and time is money. In return, if they owe me a penny or two, I tell them to forget the pennies. I know I'm already way ahead of them as it is.

Legs · 04-25-2006, 12:16 AM

Nickel for you thoughts?

Nickel pinchers.

Nickelwise

Nickelane

A Nickel saved is a nickel earned

Pretty Nickel

Nickel Loafers

Nickel and Gary Marshall

:sniffle:

Dingfod · 04-25-2006, 12:39 AM

In countries with extreme inflation rates, doing away with the lowest denominations of coins or even paper currency isn't uncommon. In Venezuela they have a saying that translates something like the American saying about something worthless "Not worth a plug nickel.", only theirs says "Not worth five Bolies." A Bolie is one Bolivar, the unit of exchange, a currency so worthless that five Bolies are valued at about a quarter of a penny U.S. That's pretty worthless. Anyway, despite the fact that they no longer mint them, you can still find Venezuelan coins in circulation. Somehow, I came home with a one Bolivar coin and a five Bolivar coin. The one Bolie is worth 0.05 cents. It would take 2,150 of them to equal one U.S. dollar. I think the minimum denomination in Venezuela is 10 Bolivars, about a half cent. IIRC, a two bottles of Coca-cola at the nearby periodicos stand it cost me about 2600 Bolies, or about US$1.30.

Ari · 04-25-2006, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

The penny is not considered to be "legal tender", thanks to a Supreme Court judgement on paying debts with pennies only, so they can be destroyed during demos or used as souvenirs without potential legal consequences.

As for cash registers, we already have 50 cent pieces and coin dollars (Susan B. Anthony and Sacajewea both come to mind as recent residents of the dollar coin).

It should be noted you can destroy any coin, and it's not illegal to deface money. It's only illegal if you do it to perpetrate a fraud.

One reason cited for the coin dollars not taking on is many stores don't know what to do with them in the registers, so removing the penny for the dollar coin might help that.

I say we should just simplify it, the smallest unit of money should be 1 credit.

Stephen Maturin · 04-25-2006, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari

It should be noted you can destroy any coin, and it's not illegal to deface money. It's only illegal if you do it to perpetrate a fraud.

That's quite true for coins. See 18 U.S.C. sec. 331. The analysis is a bit different with paper money, though. There, the standard for criminality is multilating, defacing, etc. with the intent to render the bill "unfit to be reissued . . . ." 18 U.S.C. sec. 333.

Stormlight · 04-25-2006, 06:54 AM

I don't know about the US penny, but I hope they get rid of that ridiculous Euro-cent soon. And while they're at it they can dump the 2 and 5 cents as well. :glare:

viscousmemories · 04-25-2006, 05:24 PM

I voted "ditch the penny", but only because "who cares? ditch the penny" wasn't an option.

Beth · 04-25-2006, 05:49 PM

I voted to keep the penny.

ChuckF · 04-26-2006, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlight

I don't know about the US penny, but I hope they get rid of that ridiculous Euro-cent soon. And while they're at it they can dump the 2 and 5 cents as well. :glare:

I hate the copper euro coins. I've found a coffee machine that takes 5 eurocent pieces, so they're no problem. The only way I've found to get rid of the 1s and 2s without getting some really dirty looks is the stamp machine at the post office, which accepts them. It just takes a long time to insert that much change.

As for the penny, I understand all of the arguments against getting rid of it, and I think that it should probably be kept. But damn, it's annoying. After a few weeks of riding around in the cupholder of my car, my pennies usually go into whatever charity collection box I can find.