Privileges for the incarcerated

[D. Scarlatti]

Ditto and wb lc.

Originally Posted by lady cop

if people really want to know what prison is like i would love to start a thread about it.

I'd sure rather read about it than experience it first-hand.

[lady cop]

Originally Posted by D. Scarlatti

Ditto and wb lc.

I'd sure rather read about it than experience it first-hand.

you have that right. for some it is a way of life. they know nothing else. it's 'normal'. but the fact is a prisoner has no life. no sex with the opposite sex. no steak. no getting in the car and going to the beach. there is no crime or amount of money on earth for me to give up my freedom and go to prison. i saw one of the best cops i ever knew go down for life without parole, it still makes me vomit.

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally Posted by lady cop

for some it is a way of life. they know nothing else. it's 'normal'.

Yep. I read In The Belly Of The Beast at a tender age and I've seen many a defendant's file: "Thick enough to stun an ox," as my prosecutor ex-wife was fond of saying. But I have little interest in making a site visit, especially one brought about by a felony conviction. I prefer having my door locked from the inside.

[Legs]

Originally Posted by lady cop

i saw one of the best cops i ever knew go down for life without parole, it still makes me vomit.

Wouldn't you like this person to have a TV/ Radio, whatever - if possible?

[lady cop]

he committed a murder under the guise of authority. in his cruiser. while robbing the victim. there is nothing worse than a dirty cop. but i once liked him very much, it broke a lot of hearts. i waited with him while the jury was out on life or death, and we hugged when it wasn't death. but i still feel contempt for a man who soiled his badge. we're supposed to be trusted. a lot of cops had to overcome a lot of shit because of what he did. let him have books. that's enough.

[Legs]

Not even the Golden Girls?

[lady cop]

we have constitutional protections against cruel and unusual punishment. damn, i have to go look at all the 9 gazillion smilies to find an appropriate one...this could take weeks.

[Desert Dweller]

I fear Lady Cop you would be the last person I would consult about treatment of prisoners. You are too involved and you (understandable) bias is clear. From the view of the society/State perhaps the principle of the sanctity of human life is above even this nasty person who apparently did such henious things. Thus in order to maintain some dignity for ourselves we have to give this prisoner humane treatment (since he is being kept alive). And since as others have pointed out there is no room for rehabilitation in a life sentence why not give him a tv if it makes everyone else's (guards etc) life easier?

[lady cop]

perhaps you missed my comment that i was scoffed at for being too kind to prisoners. i believe in humane treatment. i just don't think TVs are required amenities.

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally Posted by Desert Dweller

I fear Lady Cop you would be the last person I would consult about treatment of prisoners.

If she knows the law then she should be one of the first persons consulted.

[Legs]

Originally Posted by Desert Dweller

I fear Lady Cop you would be the last person I would consult about treatment of prisoners.

Since she actually worked with prisoners, her views (IMO) are very welcome here. She has seen a side, we haven't.

[Adora]

Originally Posted by Legs

My question is, basically, how do you feel about conditions in prison? - are privileges like Television a bit much? or is it not a big deal and behavioral reward is a good idea? or anything else you care to share on the subject.

I think that if you treat people like animals or children, they're going to act like animals or children one way or another. It's not helpful in terms of rehabilitation and makes it unsurprising when riots or takeovers occur.

What's a better solution? I dunno. But it's fairly obvious the incarceration system doesn't work.

[Legs]

Originally Posted by Adora

But it's fairly obvious the incarceration system doesn't work.

Can you elaborate on that, Adora? I am not sure what you mean.

As long as the incarcerated don't escape - then it works. Unless you mean that upon release they are not rehabilitated, therefore it doesn't? or something different altogether?

[Desert Dweller]

Since she actually worked with prisoners, her views (IMO) are very welcome here

Indeed, I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression I didn't mean to imply that L.Cop ought not to have an opion or express it. It just seemed to me that she was very close to the topic and with such profound matters it is necessary to avoid the dangers of inter alia projection. I would seek to protect her and have the decision taken more at arms length.

[lady cop]

in many instances incarceration serves a very useful purpose...the murdering rapists can't get to the innocent general public. sometimes that's all we can hope for. a few bars and doors and a few corrections officials are all that stand between dirtbags and our loved ones.

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally Posted by Desert Dweller

It just seemed to me that she was very close to the topic and with such profound matters it is necessary to avoid the dangers of inter alia projection. I would seek to protect her and have the decision taken more at arms length.

In the real world, there's an important distinction between law enforcement officials that continually refer to criminals as "dirtbags" and "scum" on discussion boards, since they at least have some inkling of the law and the restrictions it places on their professional activities, and members of the general public that use the same terminology with either an incomplete or non-existent understanding of the law involved. It's the latter group that has the serious credibility problem, not the former.

[wildernesse]

I think criminals should have basic humane treatment. To me, that includes access to ideas/a chance to learn, health care, a chance to exercise, clean facilities, adequate nutrition. I also think that it could be inhumane to leave someone alone with no human interaction or mental stimulation for long lengths of time, so I'm for books. I don't think tv has to be part of that. At least for people who are lifers or on death row.

For people who are going to be back among us after their time-out, I think that more rewards might be necessary in order to work towards rehabilitation. TV might be part of that.

Eh, I don't know. I like to hear about those programs where lifers are raising helper dogs for people with disabilities--of course, I get my info from the discovery channel or something, a primary legal source. That's enrichment, and I approve of that. I don't think it's necessary, but if people we're not letting out can be useful to society even though they can't be trusted to be among us, then good. (And even though that sentence is phrased so that organ harvesting and medical experimentation could also fit under it doesn't mean that's what I meant. My brain is tired.) Anyway, every time I think about how nice that is, I imagine them losing a couple of dogs to inmates who torture them.

I see both sides--I want to treat criminals like they just made a mistake and can learn from that, but at the same time--um, some of them are bad, mean, cruel people. I say some, because I can think of a whole lot of people who are just dumb either momentarily or permanently. It's hard to separate them out, and sometimes it is just too dangerous to try. This kind of ambivalence is one reason why I'm not doing any criminal law.

[Legs]

Nice post, wildernesse.

I have seen those programs too where the inmates are training helper dogs etc... but I am not certain they are high level murders... maybe drug offenses? I am not sure though.

[lady cop]

it IS important to make the distinction between types of inmates and their respective offenses. i had to do three years of corrections, and we separate/classify them out by category of crime. pedophiles all together, killers all together, misdemeanors and felonies kept separate. so of course their level of privileges and programs is contingent on dangerousness.

[Desert Dweller]

a very useful purpose...the murdering rapists can't get to the innocent general public. sometimes that's all we can hope for

Fair enough...but if true why would anyone be concerned with whether the prisoner has a tv or not?

Australia follows the British model know as separation of powers. I would not care to see this valuable principle undermined. In this case there would be separation between the arresting/charging authority and the maintainance of incarceration authority, ie the police and the gaolers are separate.

So while I imagine uninformed individuals might be troublesome using terms such as

"dirtbags" and "scum"

I can't pretend I feel ok about prison authorities using it either. It is the courts role to make judgement and it is not, for good reason, the role of the gaoler. I've no doubt prisons contain neanderthall individuals, knuckle draggers but the system maintains civilised treatment for the sake of civilisation itself not just the individual prisoner.

[lady cop]

well i am no longer in corrections, but you're correct, sometimes i forget i am not talking to other cops. we have an argot that may seem offensive to some.