Pressure on Congress intensified Tuesday to stop President Bush's plan to increase troops in Iraq, as some 1,000 active-duty soldiers and Marines urged lawmakers to support a quick withdrawal and anti-war groups planned to rally state legislatures.
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Meanwhile, more than 1,000 active-duty servicemen and women who oppose the war sent an "appeal for redress" to Congress. Although they're duty-bound to carry out the president's orders, they have a legal right to use this means to express their views.
The statement, carried on the Web site AppealforRedress.org, was signed by 1,080 troops as of Tuesday afternoon, according to the site. It urged Congress to support "the prompt withdrawal of all American military forces and bases from Iraq," adding, "Staying in Iraq will not work and is not worth the price."
"Despite our best efforts, Iraq fell further into chaos," said Marine Corps Sgt. Liam Madden, wearing a jacket and tie for a press conference on the steps of a House office building. Madden said he believed that the war "benefits neither the United States nor Iraq, and especially not the American military.
"Our brothers are dying, and politicians are squabbling," he said. "If you are funding a war that puts them in harm's way, you are not supporting them."
"Somewhere those of us who represent the American people, and the American people themselves, must follow the lead of these men and women in uniform today and find a way to speak up and speak out about this unnecessary war," Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., said in a statement.
10) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling the situation with Iraq?
Approve 35%
Disapprove 42%
No opinion 10%
Decline to answer 12%
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13) We currently have 145,000 troops in Iraq and Kuwait. How many troops do you think we should have there?
Zero 13%
0-50,000 7%
50,000-144,000 6%
145,000 13%
146,000-200,000 22%
200,000+ 16%
No opinion/Don't know 23%
So 38% think we should increase troop levels, and 39% think they should stay the same or decrease.
I posted it to show that being in favor of pulling the soldiers out does not equal not supporting them
Are many people claiming that?
There are still a number of people who vent their anger over the Iraq jaunt at the military, but they are in a definite minority. I think the number of people who equate 'don't support Iraq' to 'don't support the troops' are an equal minority and should be just as equally disregarded.
NTM
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A man only needs two tools in life. WD-40 and duct tape. If it moves and it shouldn't, use the duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.
I posted it to show that being in favor of pulling the soldiers out does not equal not supporting them
Are many people claiming that?
There are still a number of people who vent their anger over the Iraq jaunt at the military, but they are in a definite minority. I think the number of people who equate 'don't support Iraq' to 'don't support the troops' are an equal minority and should be just as equally disregarded.
NTM
I absolutely agree. The vast majority of people I have met are very supportive of the military even though they may not agree with the war.
Eye opening data! I was sure the military as a whole supported the war in Iraq. However, 52% in the military support Bush. Polls show more than 60% of Americans do not support the war in Iraq.
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"Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
Of an interesting poll base, mind: Subscribers to their newspaper. Most people I know, just as I do, buy it at the PX. (Note also the text accompanying the poll: "The results should not be read as representative of the military as a whole") A large number of those polled indicate they have never deployed at all, and I'll lay money the vast majority of the rest of the ones who deployed either never went roaming around Iraq or never even crossed the border. Almost half of them are Navy/Air Force, and (unfortunately) a huge proportion of the Army types aren't people who go outside the wire either. As far as they're all concerned, a deployment to SW Asia is a deployment to a hot, sandy place that sucks, is time away from family, basically doing your stateside job, with absolutely no tangible reason to feel positive about it.
Being a combat arms type, I tend to hang around other combat arms types, where the deployment is to a hot, sandy place that sucks, is time away from family, but at least you get to interact with the locals and feel like you're having some effect. I'd be very curious to see a poll of the 'interactors', but of the people I know either personally or online who actually go out and about, the 'should we be there' question is a lot less divisive. And finally, 'responding' polls like that tend to attract 'complainers': It's well known that people will be a lot more vocal about dis-satisfaction than satisfaction.
NTM
__________________
A man only needs two tools in life. WD-40 and duct tape. If it moves and it shouldn't, use the duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.
And finally, 'responding' polls like that tend to attract 'complainers': It's well known that people will be a lot more vocal about dis-satisfaction than satisfaction.
With a startling consistency, 86 percent of those responding to the Military Times Poll say they are satisfied with their job, a number that hasn’t varied more than two points in the four years the poll has been asking the question.
When pollsters ask Americans in general that question, they get similar numbers. A USA Today/Gallup poll last summer, for example, found 89 percent were satisfied with their jobs.
When asked to rate their overall military quality of life, fewer than 10 percent rated it poor or very poor. And that number, too, has remained level since the war began.
By large majorities, those responding:
# Are satisfied with their family lives and the time they spend with their family.
# Would sign up again if given the choice.
# Would recommend a military career to others, including their own children.
# Are not worried about their finances.
Part of the explanation for these upbeat assessments may stem from the nature of the population being surveyed. The average member of the sample — active-duty subscribers to the Military Times newspapers — is older (36 years old) and more senior (15 years’ service) than an average member of the overall force. These are men and women who have bought into the military lifestyle — and re main satisfied with that choice.
Same sampling method. They don't sound like complainers to me.
[...]combat arms types, where the deployment is to a hot, sandy place that sucks, is time away from family[...]
Are you suggesting these as representative?
Quote:
And finally, 'responding' polls like that tend to attract 'complainers':
Unless they're red-blooded types who jump at every opportunity to show up the liberal media and support 'Merika - - there's a reason why the term "freeping a poll" exists.
__________________ In the land of Mordor, where the shadows lie...
Same sampling method. They don't sound like complainers to me.
It was actually the same survey: Most, but not all, of the questions can relate to Iraq/Afghanistan. (I particularly like the comparison of 'Bush has our best interests at heart' and 'Congress has our best interests at heart.' Congresscritters are not popular, it seems.). Granted, by the very nature of the military's use, most of the questions will have no choice but to be reflected by Iraq/Afghan anyway: "Are you satisfied with the amount of time you spend with your family", "What do civilians, politicians and the media think of you" or "Is the military too small" are all valid questions which could be asked in peacetime, but are obviously going to be affected by deployments.
Quote:
there's a reason why the term "freeping a poll" exists
I don't actually know any of my military acquaintances to be a Freeper. (They may be, they just haven't advertised it). Of course, they're not the only people to use such 'fire mission' tactics. "DUing" a poll is also a term in use. Just doesn't sound as catchy.
NTM
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A man only needs two tools in life. WD-40 and duct tape. If it moves and it shouldn't, use the duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.
...at least you get to... feel like you're having some effect.
An important point, no doubt, and one that applies also to the whole nation's attitude towards this or any war.
Having done something difficult and costly for no overall positive effect, it may be more tempting to confabulate a meaning for it all, in hindsight, than to admit that one's time, anxiety and blood -- oh, and publicly displayed enthusiasm for the venture -- were plain pissed away.
Soldiers call for Iraq withdrawal
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