Petition to save that Aussie girl from the firing squad in Bali

[Petra]

Originally Posted by Crumb

Aren't Australian citizens outraged by this?

My bet is on largely apathetic.

Why do they not have the will to get her out?

'Cos the Howard Government are pussies and they don't really care enough about it. It's just politics to them.

[Godless Dave]

I have a slightly different take on this.

Yes, it's ridiculous that Indonesia, or any country, has the death penalty for smuggling cannabis.

Yes, it's quite possible that she is not getting a fair trial; Indonesia is not known for having a modern justice system.

But what about all the Indonesian people who have to live under draconian laws and don't get fair trials? By singling out this one woman we are sending the message that white people from first-world countries should not be subject to the laws of second- and third- world countries they visit. And that's fucked up imperialist thinking. It's like saying American contractors in Iraq shouldn't be subject to prosecution in Iraqi courts (which, by the way, is exactly what Paul Bremer decreed should be the case).

[justaman]

I actually received this very petition from a friend a couple of hours ago. Here's what I wrote back:
--
I'll tell you why that stupid petition is stupid:

a) there's fuck all the Australian government can do about it beyond what they are already doing and what they plan to do in the future

b) a hippy email ring is NOT going to change this

c) the government is more than aware of the political suicide it would be to allow Miss Corby to be executed. They don't actually need this pointed out to them by angry vegans who think it is virtuous to jump on any vaguely anarchistic bandwagon.

Thank you for listening and for not forwarding stupid shit to me ever again.

Sincerely

Me

[mountain_hare]

By singling out this one woman we are sending the message that white people from first-world countries should not be subject to the laws of second- and third- world countries they visit. And that's fucked up imperialist thinking.

Exactly. I'm sick of all the media hype about Corby. I don't give any more of a shit about her than all the other Indonesians who are oppressed by the 'draconian' laws (nice word ) It's unfair perhaps, but its not my place to bitch.

You aren't happy with the Indonesian legal system? Tough shit. It's not your country, it's not up to you to decide how they prosecute/punish criminals. She was on their soil, hence she is subject to their laws and ideals, not ours. Just because she is white doesn't give her special privileges, and I think that's why the judges are so pissed. All this media hype of something they do every day of the week. Why isn't there a media frenzy when an Indonesian is facing the death squad for being caught with 1 kilogram of hashish?

And she's a moron for not noticing that she was carrying 4 extra kilos of hash.

TomJoe:

If they give her a death sentence, Australia should go in, commando-style and snatch her back.

I'm guessing that you're a typical arrogant American.

Firstly, don't you think it is a tad rude to trespass on a country's soil and defy their laws, just because you don't agree with their decisions (which they had every right to make and enforce?) Oh wait, obviously not, since America trespassed in Iraq.

Secondly, don't tell us Australians what we 'should' do. I don't take orders from an imperialistic asshole.

[justaman]

Originally Posted by mountain_hare

Exactly. I'm sick of all the media hype about Corby. I don't give any more of a shit about her than all the other Indonesians who are oppressed by the 'draconian' laws (nice word ) It's unfair perhaps, but its not my place to bitch.

Do you not give a shit because you think that it is morally correct for Schapelle to be subject to Indonesian law, or do you not give a shit because you don't happen to know her personally? What I mean is, if it were a friend of yours, do you reckon you'd start giving a shit? Especially if he/she is almost certainly innocent?

You aren't happy with the Indonesian legal system? Tough shit. It's not your country, it's not up to you to decide how they prosecute/punish criminals. She was on their soil, hence she is subject to their laws and ideals, not ours. Just because she is white doesn't give her special privileges, and I think that's why the judges are so pissed.

I don't know that the judges are 'pissed'. And surely there's something to be said for acknowledging cultural differences. We are forced to provide certain types of meals for certain types of religious people. I understand what you're saying, and I agree to the point that I don't think Australia should do anything about it at this stage, but I think we have a right after the process for our legal system to assess the trial and decide whether or not it was conducted fairly. Assuming she's found guilty, of course.

And she's a moron for not noticing that she was carrying 4 extra kilos of hash.

You are honestly suggesting that her failure to notice something she never expected to be there warrents her a death sentence?

I'm guessing that you're a typical arrogant American.

Jesus Christ mate.

Firstly, don't you think it is a tad rude to trespass on a country's soil and defy their laws, just because you don't agree with their decisions (which they had every right to make and enforce?) Oh wait, obviously not, since America trespassed in Iraq.

I agree with the underlying sentiment. It's just a shame you feel the need to dress it up in this ridiculously childish fashion.

Secondly, don't tell us Australians what we 'should' do. I don't take orders from an imperialistic asshole.

He was hardly ordering us to do anything, and further more, you don't speak for Australia.

I just don't understand how you don't see that your posting style detracts from your ability to be convincing. Do you get it? Being rude for the hell of it achieves nothing but to drastically decrease your credibility to people who might otherwise have listened.

[mountain_hare]

justa(wo)man:

Do you not give a shit because you think that it is morally correct for Schapelle to be subject to Indonesian law, or do you not give a shit because you don't happen to know her personally?

A little from column A, a little from column B. To be honest, if I am outraged about Schapelle's predicament, I need outraged about every Indonesian who has been met with 'injustice'. Quite simply, I don't have the capacity to feel that much outrage.

What I mean is, if it were a friend of yours, do you reckon you'd start giving a shit? Especially if he/she is almost certainly innocent?

If it was a friend of mine, of course I would 'give a shit'. But Schapelle isn't my friend. I don't even know the girl, nor do the media or sympathizers. Why do they care about this girl they hardly know, and not some poor Indonesian who is rotting in a jail just for possessing some hash for personal use?

I don't know that the judges are 'pissed'.

If I were an Indonesian judge, I'd be pissed if white trespassers criticized my decisions, when they know jack all about my culture.

And surely there's something to be said for acknowledging cultural differences. We are forced to provide certain types of meals for certain types of religious people.

That's right, YOU are forced to acknowledge culture differences, and provide for every whiner who refuses to respect the culture of the country they are living. However, your country is not Indonesia. Indonesia has extended the middle finger to people who want to force their ideals/beliefs on them, and that's fair enough. If they want to militant state, that's their choice. Whatever gets the job done.

Jesus Christ mate.

Yes, I know I'm am Jesus, but there is no need to keep calling me by that name. I'm a humble man. Just call me Sir.

He was hardly ordering us to do anything, and further more, you don't speak for Australia.

I doubt any Australian would enjoy being ordered about by a Yankee, except John Howard, perhaps. But then again, he doesn't speak for Australia.

[Crumb]

Originally Posted by mountain_hare

Just because she is white doesn't give her special privileges, and I think that's why the judges are so pissed.

It is not about her being white. It is about her being a fucking Australian citizen. I would be just as outraged if she was a black Australian citizen or any other race.

Originally Posted by mountain_hare

You aren't happy with the Indonesian legal system? Tough shit. It's not your country, it's not up to you to decide how they prosecute/punish criminals.

Exactly why she should be an exception. She has no input into their fucked up legal system.

Originally Posted by mountain_hare

She was on their soil, hence she is subject to their laws and ideals, not ours.

This is true for the most part, but when it comes to egregious "miscarriages of justice" as the death penalty for a silly offense like this exceptions must be made.

I have nothing against indonesians and I am sorry that they have to live under these oppresive laws too. But it is their fucking country! If they don't like the laws they need to do something about it. Is it ok for them to arrest and try her for a crime she may have committed in their country? Yes. But this is so obviously over the top ludicrous that it is completely reasonable for political action be taken on her behalf.

I don't suggest an invasion a la Iraq (I am an American who opposed the war in Iraq--You do know such animals exist, do you not?) But as a last resort covert action to extract her, if other political channels didn't work is something I would surely consider.

[justaman]

mountain_hare: I was responding to your post but then I got to the bottom.

Do you understand you are presently not worth talking to? You have consciously decided that you want people to think of you as a trivial annoyance incapable of intelligent discussion. You have fun with that.

[BigBlue2]

Originally Posted by lunachick

My bet is on largely apathetic.

Realistic, more like. I think most Australians believe that Corby is innocent and would expect the Australian government to do everything possible to ensure that she is released. However, taking military action against Indonesia to get Corby out of Bali is La-La Land stuff. This isn't a Schwarzenegger movie or a video game.

Originally Posted by lunachick

'Cos the Howard Government are pussies and they don't really care enough about it. It's just politics to them.

There is actually something to this. At the beginning of this little saga the Australian Government was not all that keen to do more than absolutely necessary. However, domestic pressure have caused the Government to change it's tune - for example, an Australian drug smuggler was allowed to testify on Corby's behalf (to try to support the defence case that Corby was the victim of a stuff-up). A few months ago this would not have occurred.

[Godless Dave]

Originally Posted by Crumb

Exactly why she should be an exception. She has no input into their fucked up legal system.

But she chose to go there. Are you seriously saying she should get special treatment because she is a foreigner, other than being given the opportunity to contact her embassy after her arrest? Do you feel the same way about foreigners accused of crimes in your country?

[Godless Dave]

Originally Posted by mountain_hare

Firstly, don't you think it is a tad rude to trespass on a country's soil and defy their laws, just because you don't agree with their decisions (which they had every right to make and enforce?) Oh wait, obviously not, since America trespassed in Iraq.

So did Australia, and Australians didn't seem to think it was enough of an issue to keep them from re-electing Howard's party.

[mountain_hare]

Crumb:

Exactly why she should be an exception. She has no input into their fucked up legal system.

She was on their soil, in their country, hence she is subject to their laws. Merely because she is a foreigner does not entitle her to special treatment.

Godless Dave:

So did Australia, and Australians didn't seem to think it was enough of an issue to keep them from re-electing Howard's party.

As much as I despise Howard's ideals, he keeps this country in shape (unlike Bush, who can't look after the financial interests of America). I can understand why people chose to vote for him. Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't.

[Crumb]

Originally Posted by Godless Dave

But she chose to go there. Are you seriously saying she should get special treatment because she is a foreigner, other than being given the opportunity to contact her embassy after her arrest? Do you feel the same way about foreigners accused of crimes in your country?

In capital punishment cases? Yes.

[viscousmemories]

Originally Posted by Crumb

In capital punishment cases? Yes.

I'd have to disagree with you there, Crumb. I think people should be required to obey the laws of countries they visit and subject to the same penalties citizens are. However, situations like this strengthen my belief that there should be stronger International regulations on human rights abuses. Because in my opinion killing people for drug possession is a human rights abuse that should not be acceptable anywhere.

[Crumb]

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

I think people should be required to obey the laws of countries they visit and subject to the same penalties citizens are.

I agree with this as a basic principal.

Originally Posted by viscousmemories

However, situations like this strengthen my belief that there should be stronger International regulations on human rights abuses. Because in my opinion killing people for drug possession is a human rights abuse that should not be acceptable anywhere.

Ok. I see your point and I agree that this would be a much more legitimate way of correcting this problem. I guess I am backing off my original statement. This would require a strengthing of international laws, which will be much resisted by the US. At least with this administration. I also hope for sometime in the (I hope not too) distant future for the death penalty for any offense to be considered a violation of human rights.