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07-11-2011, 11:04 PM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
The report concluded that 178 Atlanta schoolteachers and principals—82 of whom have already confessed—either assisted students to cheat on the state’s standardized competency tests or deliberately corrected wrong answers themselves. Of 56 Atlanta public schools examined, 44 were found to have engaged in statistically significant cheating.
For a decade, Atlanta’s public schools had been depicted as a shining national star that dared leave no child behind as dedicated educators and their eager-to-learn pupils joined hands, chanted slogans, marched together, chest-bumped and fist-pumped one-another’s self-esteem, established a clear vision, looked to the future, kept their eyes on the prize, and made countless other ultimately hollow gestures. For a decade, it seemed as if Atlanta was a real-life example of every cloying Hollywood movie where loving-yet-stern teachers grabbed gaggles of shiftlessly misbehaving urban youngsters by the scruffs of their necks and taught them that teaching was something worth being taught and that learning was a valuable thing to learn.
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__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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07-11-2011, 11:04 PM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
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The report also accused superintendent Beverly Hall—who was named 2009’s National Superintendent of the Year as well as receiving numerous other glitter-spackled accolades—of stonewalling reporters’ investigations into the fraud and going so far as to instruct her underlings to alter and destroy documents. Hall was reportedly receiving a salary of $400,000 per year and had racked up over a half-million dollars in bonuses for her district’s high test scores. In November, mere months after the state launched its investigation, Hall resigned her post. Last Tuesday, the day the report was released to the public, Hall took a vacation to Hawaii.
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__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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07-11-2011, 11:22 PM
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Adequately Crumbulent
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cascadia
Gender: Male
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
That's what happens when teacher's jobs and school funding is based on the out come of the tests.  Seems like it was damn near inevitable to me.
Last edited by Crumb; 07-12-2011 at 12:08 AM.
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07-11-2011, 11:38 PM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
I agree with crumb 100%. Nobody should be remotely surprised at this and also nobody should even for a moment think this is isolated. It is happening elsewhwere, right now.
High stakes tests need to go.
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07-11-2011, 11:50 PM
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happy now, Mussolini?
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: location, location
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Testing ≠ reform.
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07-12-2011, 12:28 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
How do you determine the competency of the students without testing them?
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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07-12-2011, 01:10 AM
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Mindless Hog
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Juggalonia
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
More important, how do we close the all-important Standardized Test Gap between us and the Inscrutable Yellow Menace without making education 100% about performing well on standardized tests?
__________________
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis D. Brandeis
"Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are." ~ S. Gecko
"What the fuck is a German muffin?" ~ R. Swanson
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07-12-2011, 01:32 AM
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Not as smart as Adam
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Queensland
Gender: Male
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
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Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
How do you determine the competency of the students without testing them?
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Depends what you're testing them against. If you are testing them against every other student in the state/country you are setting at least half of them up for failure immediately. The Montessori way is to test them against themselves. Compare how they did in term two compared to term one. Much fairer. And it individualises testing rather than ignoring things such as tax dollars spent on the school, parental literacy, peer group pressure and socio-economic status, all of which have a huge impact on educational outcomes.
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Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
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07-12-2011, 02:52 AM
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I read some of your foolish scree, then just skimmed the rest.
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bay Area
Gender: Male
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
How do you determine the competency of the students without testing them?
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Grades.
Besides there are already at least two college accepted tests, we don't really need more. Standardized testing is great to politicians and bean counters because it offers a good sound bite. While it turns out students that are excellent at taking timed scan tron tests, it doesn't seem to do anything else useful.
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07-12-2011, 04:12 AM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
How do you determine the competency of the students without testing them?
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OMG yeah how did humans ever learn anything without high stakes standardized tests?? How did they determine Vattell was competent, for example?
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07-13-2011, 01:39 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Wait, so you guys are advocating low paid educators and no mechanism for delineating performance.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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07-13-2011, 01:40 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Hey, how about we get the State out of Education?
What is wrong with allowing parents and children to choose their own educational needs?
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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07-13-2011, 02:08 AM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
A public educational option is important to a democratic society, IMO. Without it your population would be largely illiterate.
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07-13-2011, 02:08 AM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Wait, so you guys are advocating low paid educators and no mechanism for delineating performance.
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Hello Strawman!
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07-13-2011, 02:21 AM
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Not as smart as Adam
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Queensland
Gender: Male
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Hey, how about we get the State out of Education?
What is wrong with allowing parents and children to choose their own educational needs?
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Have you met parents? There's some in this very thread!
__________________
Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
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07-13-2011, 02:23 AM
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Not as smart as Adam
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Queensland
Gender: Male
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Wait, so you guys are advocating low paid educators and no mechanism for delineating performance.
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Hello Strawman! |
That's all he has left. His nebulous point has disappeared and it's his face he's trying to save now.
__________________
Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
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07-13-2011, 02:54 AM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
It seems he didn't expect people to react as they did. Is that the problem Jerome, you thought we would defend the dishonest teachers and admins and the stupid policies that led to the cheating and theft?
Do you understand the difference between "test" and "High stakes test"? Do you understand the issue of tying bonuses and pay to standardized test scores which are easily manipulated?
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07-13-2011, 03:55 AM
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NeoTillichian Hierophant & Partisan Hack
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa
Gender: Male
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
That was a rhetorical question, right?
__________________
Old Pain In The Ass says: I am on a mission from God to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable; to bring faith to the doubtful and doubt to the faithful. 
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07-13-2011, 04:25 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
A public educational option is important to a democratic society, IMO. Without it your population would be largely illiterate.
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Really, if there was not public education there would be few readers?
What do you base this on?
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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07-13-2011, 04:27 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadlokd
Have you met parents?
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Right, you advocate the State assuming the parental role based upon the expressed thoughts of some on the internets.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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07-13-2011, 04:29 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
It seems he didn't expect people to react as they did. Is that the problem Jerome, you thought we would defend the dishonest teachers and admins and the stupid policies that led to the cheating and theft?
Do you understand the difference between "test" and "High stakes test"? Do you understand the issue of tying bonuses and pay to standardized test scores which are easily manipulated?
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You want to blame the system, the same system that you advocate, for the failings.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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07-13-2011, 04:35 AM
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Member
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Remind me, Jerry Soetoro, where has LadyShea ever advocated for a system of high-stakes testing, with or without being tied to bonuses for performance?
Is your position that nobody can support a national institution like public schools without supporting every last thing that goes on in that institution? And if it is, then when did you become an anarchist? Given your numerous critiques of government policy, it's only consistent that you would want to abolish the government as a whole, right?
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07-13-2011, 05:14 AM
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I said it, so I feel it, dick
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Here
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
I said I believe having a public education option is important in a Democratic society...there will always be people with no other means of receiving a basic education. That says nothing of my assessment of any specific set of policies or methods used in providing a public system, nor did I say it should be the only option.
If you really gave a fuck about my views on this, you would see from my many threads on the topic that I support all manner of choices in education. But, you don't, so keep on hitting that strawman
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07-13-2011, 05:18 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyShea
I said I believe having a public education option is important in a Democratic society...there will always be people with no other means of receiving a basic education. That says nothing of my assessment of any specific set of policies or methods used in providing a public system, nor did I say it should be the only option.
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I contend that as a society we can pay for the education of those that can not.
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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07-13-2011, 05:20 AM
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Dr. Jerome Corsi-Soetoro, Ph.D., Esq.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nullifidian
support a national institution like public schools
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lol
national institution
Are you calling me unpatriotic?!!?
__________________
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. ... The origin of myths is explained in this way.
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