Public Schools: Fraud Equals $500,000 in Bonus

[Jerome]

LadyShea, those are thoughtful answers, thank you.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by Kyuss Apollo

Some states don't require much more than a one-time notification.

Mostly here they're just concerned that a new letter of intent is sent at the start of each school year, and that there's some account of the hours each homeschooler spent learning at the end.

Who qualifies high school graduation?

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

Who qualifies high school graduation?

The parents in the case of homeschoolers.

What's confusing to you?

[Jerome]

I don't know, University just takes it on the word of the parent, a couple of test scores, and an essay?

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

LadyShea, those are thoughtful answers, thank you.

I have been heavily researching educational issues, especially alternatives to public schools, for many years...so it is a specific interest of mine.

How about you answer my question? Do you feel that simply reporting enrollment, which is the only requirement in some states, is so onerous as to prevent interested business people from creating a robust competing alternative school system, one that happily provides for those who cannot pay (as you claimed would be the case)?

[Jerome]

Step one would be to return the majority of taxes back which are currently used for the public system.

A little deflation would be good.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

I don't know, University just takes it on the word of the parent and a couple of test scores?

Some Universities (Yale is the only Ivy League IIRC) still require a diploma from an accredited school (public or private) or a GED or transferable credits from a CC, but in my research I found very few that didn't have alternative processes and many are even actively recruiting non-traditional students (specifically homeschooled, but the same principles apply to non-trad private schools). Sometimes students will choose to take a GED or dual enroll in community college while finishing their high school studies, if their Uni of choice requires it.

Pick a couple of colleges and take a look at their admission requirements.

[Jerome]

Basically the University system generally could give a shit about secondary education, they only care if the student can preform and has the funds.

[Qingdai]

Were you under the impression that performing and being able to pay wasn't all the universities required?
Because if you're from the "right" family (legacy enrollment) was the only other way to get into a university.

[LadyShea]

Well, if the student can perform the work needed in the degree program, why would they care how they acquired the necessary skills and knowledge to do so?

Also, if you can get into Harvard, and your family makes < 60K (last I checked), you pay no tuition. They are committed to diversity. Of course, getting in is tough because it's Harvard. There are also excellent schools where you can work in lieu of tuition (several ag schools), or that are free due to grants, but again these are very competitive and you have to be an exceptional applicant.

The military academies also accept non-trad students, homeschoolers for sure have been admitted to all 4.

[LadyShea]

Anyway back to the OP. Yeah, NCLB needs to be repealed, and if not repealed amended to forbid attaching high stakes, for students as well as staff, to standardized test scores that are used for NCLB.

Some states have testing outside the scope of NCLB, so the Fed Gov can't say anything about those.

[beyelzu]

Originally Posted by Sidhe

who for example don't understand why gravity is proportional to distance say intrinsically

why should this be the case necessarily? Ie while gravity is dependent on the distance it isn't direct

It's m1m2G/d squared. So it isn't linear with distance though it does drop off with distance. The strong nuclear force drops off quite a bit quicker. I just don't know that people should understand that gravity is proportional to distance intrinsically.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Qingdai

Were you under the impression that performing and being able to pay wasn't all the universities required?
Because if you're from the "right" family (legacy enrollment) was the only other way to get into a university.

Well...There is the fact that if you have enough money, it can even counter the legacy of coming from the 'wrong' family.....like when London School of Economics sold a PhD to Saif al-Islam Gaddafi for a plagerized work. I'm betting that the ₤2.2 million Libyan gift to the school helped grease Saif's diploma success.

So much for private schools and 'integrity'.

[Angakuk]

On that basis you dispose of the integrity of all private schools? Harsh and hasty generalizations do not an argument make.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Angakuk

On that basis you dispose of the integrity of all private schools? Harsh and hasty generalizations do not an argument make.

True. But the point made is that even the most 'reputable' of private schools is not immune from the very same kinds of corrupting influences which JEROME heaps upon public schools. The profit motive is not some kind of miraculous cleansing principle; nor is being in the public domain.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

True. But the point made is that even the most 'reputable' of private schools is not immune from the very same kinds of corrupting influences which JEROME heaps upon public schools. The profit motive is not some kind of miraculous cleansing principle; nor is being in the public domain.

The point is that the corruption by private organizations can be remedied by the people and government; this is the purpose of government by the way, and the harm from the corruption will not be near as wide-spread.

[LadyShea]

The point is that the corruption by private organizations can be remedied by the people and government

Remedied how?

[Kael]

By punishing the hardest workers with intrusive regulation, oversight, and taxation to pay for them. Obvs.

[Jerome]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

Remedied how?

Fraud is against the law. The job of government is to intervene through either law enforcement or by a citizen petitioning a Court for justice.

It is much more difficult for a citizen to go to Court for justice against the government, this is why we have organizations such as the ACLU.

[LadyShea]

Fraud and mismanagement is much harder to find when your records are not public though, and money can buy shut mouths, favorable regulations and lax overseers.

Ever heard if MCI, Enron, oil companies drilling in the Gulf, securities rating companies, Madoff?

And also, LOL at regular people suing corporations and having a shot in hell most of the time. I would much, much rather go after the government with the ACLU on my side, than go against a private corp, thanks.

[Jerome]

All of those examples hurt a comparatively small number of people and they were punished, when government is corrupt it is universal, all but a few are harmed.

[Jerome]

What are a citizens chances in these two examples?

Suing the President for sending your child overseas to die in an illegal war.

Suing a Corporation for polluting a river which caused the death of your child.

[LadyShea]

Originally Posted by JEROME DA GNOME

All of those examples hurt a comparatively small number of people and they were punished, when government is corrupt it is universal, all but a few are harmed.

The 'government' isn't a monolith and no, corruption cannot be universal. People in government are sometimes corrupt

[beyelzu]

I dig it, I agree that sending a child to school is the same as sending a child to an illegal war.

[LadyShea]

Anyway, when it comes to education, Jerome, have you thought this through? Would regulations require these private schools to accept and teach every student? Could they be selective and refuse to teach a kid with learning disabilities or attention disorders? Would they be required to offer scholarships to those who couldn't otherwise afford to send their kids to school? Would there be regulation of curriculum? How would oversight work?

If you think regulations are too onerous now (which I believe I demonstrated are actually quite minimal), and that's why private corps aren't opening chains of schools by the dozens, what if they were the sole providers? The regulation framework would have to be extensive to ensure that everyone has access to a quality education.