Is McCain a Natural Born US Citizen?

[Adam]

Of course not, Columbus hadn't even sailed yet when McCain was born.

I hadn't heard this before today, but apparently there's a minor controversy in the air over whether or not St. Walnuts, who was born in the Canal Zone in Panama, counts as a "natural born citizen" for purposes of eligibility for the Presidency. This one of those things where I think basic common sense and fairness are on St. BBQ's side, but it's an interesting question anyway (and, seriously, had Obama been born a couple years earlier, before Hawaii was a state, do you honestly think the GOP and their proxies wouldn't be howling about how he wasn't "natural born"?) I was wondering what our resident legal experts thought about this. Specifically, there are a couple things I found interesting or confusing;

Some Internet bloggers have speculated that McCain wasn’t actually born in the Coco Solo military hospital in the Panama Canal Zone, but rather a nearby off-base hospital, in Panama.

Contrary to some jokesters who say McCain is so old his birth certificate is expired, McCain does in fact have one. He’s just not releasing it publicly.

But the McCain campaign did let a Washington Post reporter take a peek at it. According to the reporter, the certificate records his birth in the Coco Solo “family hospital.”

Why the hell would His Holiness not release his birth certificate? Does keeping it secret really serve any purpose other than making it appear that he has something to hide?

Obama and Sen. Hillary Clinton co-sponsored Senate legislation saying they thought the issue was bogus. On April 30, 2008, the U.S. Senate passed a resolution to put it to rest: “John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen’ under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.”

So, leaving aside further commentary in the article noting that this legislation wouldn't mean squat if SCOTUS interpreted the Constitution to say that The Straight-Talker isn't "natural born", the Senate actually passed this crap? Seriously?

Duggin doubts the courts will deem any of these random Americans to have standing to bring the suits. So who would? Any one of McCain’s Republican opponents in the primary. So, probably, would his eventual Democratic opponent in the general election. None seems likely to file an objection.

“My guess is no one wants to take this all the way through,” Duggin said.

This is the part that makes me angry. You're telling me that I have no standing to object to the president of my country's inauguration's illegality? Seriously? As far as opposing candidates not being willing to press the issue, maybe the Dems won't, but it would be interesting to see what happened if some third party did so. Green? Libertarians? You want to make yourselves semi-useful?

The idea that “an American born in a territory of the United States whose father is serving in the military would not be eligible for the presidency of the United States is certainly not something our founding fathers envisioned,” McCain said.

Yah, but quite possibly that's because the framers wouldn't have envisioned permanent overseas American military bases in the first place.

[godfry n. glad]

This is the part that makes me angry. You're telling me that I have no standing to object to the president of my country's inauguration's illegality? Seriously? As far as opposing candidates not being willing to press the issue, maybe the Dems won't, but it would be interesting to see what happened if some third party did so. Green? Libertarians? You want to make yourselves semi-useful?

Y'know...That's not a bad idea. The problem is, whoever takes it on is going to face a prolonged and exceedingly expensive legal battle. I doubt if many, or any, other likelies have the moola.

Justice is for the rich.

[ChuckF]

I've been half-aware of this "controversy" as it pops up every few months for a day on various blogs. I'm not particularly moved.

But I do wonder - in the event of a Gramps McCain presidency - how long it will be before we have our first president who was born in Iraq. Since St. McCain wants us to stay there for 100 (1000?) years, it's not unimaginable.

ETA:

Originally Posted by Adam

Green? Libertarians? You want to make yourselves semi-useful?

I think you already know the answer to that one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

But I do wonder - in the event of a Gramps McCain presidency - how long it will be before we have our first president who was born in Iraq. Since St. McCain wants us to stay there for 100 (1000?) years, it's not unimaginable.

That was last month! Now Senator Straight Talk promises that he'll have us out of Iraq by 2013, through the magic of Straight Talking! Once he sits the Sunnis and Shiites down and tells them to cut out the bullshit, our troops will be strolling down a carpet of rose petals on their way out of the country before you know it.

ETA:

I think you already know the answer to that one.

[1Samuel8]

The way I figure, I hope that McCain can set the stage for Arnie to become President too.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by Adam

(and, seriously, had Obama been born a couple years earlier, before Hawaii was a state, do you honestly think the GOP and their proxies wouldn't be howling about how he wasn't "natural born"?)

By that same logic, George Washington and some number of the first several presidents were also not natural born. When do we start counting? 1776? 1787?

[California Tanker]

Didn't we go over this topic the last two times it came up?

Besides, it needn't go as far as geographic location. From my perspective, natural citizenship applies immediately upon birth, as opposed to acquired citizenship which is sought. As soon as McCain popped out, he was a citizen by simple birthright, by virtue of his dad. Much as I became an Irish citizen by birthright, even though I was born in the US. The State Dept recognises the difference between the two concepts. I don't see what the issue is.

I acknowledge that there is debate on the issue, but it seems very odd to me.

NTM

[Stephen Maturin]

Originally Posted by Adam

Of course not, Columbus hadn't even sailed yet when McCain was born.

But then again, people were saying the same shit about Reagan in 1980. Well do I remember the "Reagan in '80, Bush in '81" bumper stickers. That didn't work out well for us at all.

I hadn't heard this before today, but apparently there's a minor controversy in the air over whether or not St. Walnuts, who was born in the Canal Zone in Panama, counts as a "natural born citizen" for purposes of eligibility for the Presidency.

Well, sort of. It's certainly a controversy in the eyes of that article's author and the publicity hound of a lawprof quoted therein, not to mention this guy. However, the notion that McCain might not be a "natural born citizen" for purposes of Article II is the silliest idea to come down the pike since "Hey, Senator Lieberman, how about being my running mate?"

Why the hell would His Holiness not release his birth certificate? Does keeping it secret really serve any purpose other than making it appear that he has something to hide?

Damned if I know. Maybe he's worried about fueling a controversy, but that ship done already sailed.

So, leaving aside further commentary in the article noting that this legislation wouldn't mean squat if SCOTUS interpreted the Constitution to say that The Straight-Talker isn't "natural born", the Senate actually passed this crap? Seriously?

Srsly!

This particular resolution does indeed mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things, but federal courts tend to treat pronouncements of the First Congress as the statements of Jesus Himself when it comes to defining undefined constitutional terms. The Naturalization Act of 1790 decreed that anyone born outside the U.S. to American citizens are themselves "natural born citizens."

The joint analysis of a constitutional law expert (Laurence Tribe) and a silk-stocking, knob-gobbling Republican hack (Ted Olson) is available here courtesy of the Congressional Record. Their first conclusion, that McCain is a natural citizen jus sanguinis by virtue of being born to American parents, looks conclusive to me. Their second conclusion is substantially weaker and should have been left out entirely.

This is the part that makes me angry. You're telling me that I have no standing to object to the president of my country's inauguration's illegality? Seriously?

Probably so, and standing ain't the half of it. Seems to me that there's no ripe controversy unless and until McCain can claim enough electoral votes to win the office. Until then, anything a federal court could say is arguably an "advisory opinion," which is a big fat no-no.

Beyond that, a federal court could simply punt by invoking the political question doctrine and holding that decisions on presidential qualifications are constitutionally committed to Congress alone.

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

By that same logic, George Washington and some number of the first several presidents were also not natural born. When do we start counting? 1776? 1787?

In Article II, Section 1 the Framers grandfathered in "citizen[s] of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution," i.e., themselves.

[ZEZOZE]

i think he was a c-section.

[seebs]

I wasn't born in the US, but my parents were citizens, so I'm a natural born US citizen, just not one born on US territory. That's fine.

[Ensign Steve]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

In Article II, Section 1 the Framers grandfathered in "citizen[s] of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution," i.e., themselves.

How conveeeeeenient.

[ChuckF]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

In Article II, Section 1 the Framers grandfathered in "citizen[s] of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution,"

I guess that covers McCain, then?

[Ensign Steve]

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by Stephen Maturin

But then again, people were saying the same shit about Reagan in 1980. Well do I remember the "Reagan in '80, Bush in '81" bumper stickers. That didn't work out well for us at all.

True, the prediction of a Bush presidency in '81 failed, but not for lack of trying.

[California Tanker]

Anyone catch McCain on SNL this weekend?

"Politics isn't just about Democrats and Republicans.. It's about being able to look your children in the eye. Or, in my case, my children, my grandchildren, my great grandchildren, my great great grandchildren, and my great great great grandchildren, the youngest of which is now approaching retirement."

There should still be a couple of clips on the SNL website. He commits to prohibiting the use of federal funds to develop a gaydar detector.

NTM