What? We don't count?

[godfry n. glad]

Typical.

All these nowhere places have their primary elections way too fuckin' early in the year and now, we here in Orygun, don't even make a blip on the electoral scene here at FF?

Same as it ever was....now they'll call the general election before our polling time (curious, since we have no election polls) has passed.

Obama scored 58% to Hillary's 42% here in Orygun.

The weekend before, 72,000 citizens and interested folks turned out to see and hear Barack Obama speak at Tom McCall Waterfront Park. Man...I've never seen a street crowd like that.

So...Hillary took Kentucky with 60% to 40%, huh?

Jay Leno referred to Kentucky as the "Bluegrass State"; Oregon, on the other hand, was the "Primo Grass State". I didn't know we still had that reputation.

Where's that leave everybody now? Electon-wise, that is.

[ChuckF]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

All these nowhere places have their primary elections way too fuckin' early in the year and now, we here in Orygun, don't even make a blip on the electoral scene here at FF?

Not a big deal.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by ChuckF

Not a big deal.

All the more reason to secede.

[Qingdai]

They'll miss us when we're gone!

[Ensign Steve]

Can California come too? I mean, I know you're not full of love for us, but think about it. You can call us "The South" and tease us mercilessly.

[Qingdai]

Let's see, huge economic powerhouse of the US? I'd say yes, but I think they won't let you go.

[ChuckF]

wtf west coast. Slide into the Pacific already.

[Qingdai]

You can't hurry geology, dude.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

Can California come too? I mean, I know you're not full of love for us, but think about it. You can call us "The South" and tease us mercilessly.

Move north to Humboldt County...Then you're in.

[Caligulette]

In re Geology and the hurrying up thereof: Unless you're a super villain, of course.

I am against secession, as it is a retrograde outlook.

But I do think there should be A primary day when everyone votes. Then a second one a couple months later where everyone votes again on the folks who were left standing. Then the two top scorers end up being the Pres (top) and Vice nominees. Fricken make them work together before they're allowed to spout off about being Willing To Work Across the Aisle.

[godfry n. glad]

Is not "retrograde"....Old absurdist arbitrary political boundaries should be replaced with real, watershed resource political boundaries.

The rest o'youse can dry up an' blow away, but we'll have our pristine, cool mountain snowmelt, water.

"Retrograde" is preserving a political entity because it's power serves your pitiful little domination needs. The United States and Canada both should be reconfigured into seven nations, or more.

Of course, doing away with the nuclear arsenal will need to come first.

[Caligulette]

No. No no no. The world should be united and the region's resources shared in an ecologically sound manner.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Caligulette

No. No no no. The world should be united and the region's resources shared in an ecologically sound manner.

Sorry...The fricken' thirsty Sufferin' Californians have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted with clean, cold water. They can keep their mitts off the Columbia River's water, or any other watershed in Cascadia.

Besides, the world would be far more likely to be "united" if there wasn't one overwhelming hegemon forcing everybody else to fork up or be "democratized". Bring on the constitutional convention; I'm ready.

[ChuckF]

Originally Posted by Caligulette

No. No no no. The world should be united and the region's resources shared in an ecologically sound manner.

[Ensign Steve]

But... but... but... we gots Disneyland!

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Ensign Steve

But... but... but... we gots Disneyland!

All the more reason.

Just think of the "Small, Small World" abomination.

Think of the children...

[Ensign Steve]

[chunksmediocrites]

Depending on what contested boundaries are used, Northern California would be included in Cascadia.

Ecotopia's success in the story Ecotopia Emerging relied on advances in solar power production and nuclear 'suitcase dirty bombs' planted in major US cities with the threat of using them if succession was denied. As well as the US government being embroiled in foreign wars. Not really a viable hope for all kinds of ethical and reality-based reasons. I'd just be happy if more people thought about buying local when possible and not acting like consumer robots... sigh. Now I guess I better start bicycling to work more and buying less bananas! Unless I can convince Godfrey to start growing cascadian bananas. Though I think those are called apples. Or maybe potatoes.

And yes, Oregon doesn't count in the grand political scheme of things now, though Cascadia does, at least in regards to fresh water, which is going to rapidly replace oil as the resource to war for.

[godfry n. glad]

Yeah...Your linky is the map with the boundaries with which I'm familiar.

I already suggested Humboldt County:



Match that against the Cascadia map, and you'll see that I already accept that parts of what are now California would be included in Cascadia.

I trust you've read Cadillac Desert?

I'm not suggesting any such mechanism of secession. I'm a proponent of nonviolence unless violently provoked. I'm pushing for a constitutional convention. If the last one is any indication, anything can happen. It does, however, suggest the means of disposing of nuclear waste accumulated at locations like Hanford...which stands as another reason to secede.

[Caligulette]

Oh, Canada (heh) has a bit of water as well.

The whole separatist thing is just a bunch of hooey. It is time to go the next step- we started out clanishly, then village-y, then state-y, and country-y. It's time to take it international. BIGGER- not smaller. The faux division between Californians and Oregonians is foolishness and serves only to keep the powers that be in power. It's time workers of all places join forces and knock them down.

And it was not the people of California who did the water thing, it was industrial farmers, golf courses, and Lucas- damned Lucas- who did the water thing.

[godfry n. glad]

I also seem to remember the acquisition large numbers of shoulder-held ground to air missiles, which were used to excellent effect in the "Helicopter Wars", all news of which had been suppressed in the remaining US. At least that was what was alluded to in Ecotopia.

[godfry n. glad]

I'm saying de-nationalize to gut nationalism and encourge international regionalism. International is just too big to adequately govern. Internationalism tends to lead too much to cultural subjegation. I'm not for international culture. I'm for regional cultures in international milieus and freedom of movement. Geographically big nations tend to despoil the underpopulated areas to despoil the populated areas....the Tradegy of the Commons. We need to find ways to have people take responsibility for their commons, and that's not putting it thousands of miles away, or hundreds of miles, but in each any every community. That's taking it down to the neighborhood level...giving people power over their community and the money which is taxed from them to improve their community. Then metropolitan areas and rural areas with service districts for specific services that can be shared. Then the region...

No nation. Redefine power relationships and search for means of defusing both wealth and power. Decentralize where possible.

[godfry n. glad]

Originally Posted by Caligulette

Oh, Canada (heh) has a bit of water as well.

Yeah, well...Didya look at the map?

Cascadia would include the Columbia and Fraser River watersheds, along with several shorter river watersheds, both north and south (like the Klamath) to be inclusive of much of the northwestern US (including a the northwestern tab of California) up to the panhandle of what is now Alaska. That's most of what is now British Columbia (in Canuckistan).

[Caligulette]

It's not like everyone would be issued grey dresses (or slacks) and told to quit speaking their languages. THAT is the pervue of the capitalistic system which demands a certain amount of conformity to better control the market. I am also not saying everything would be conveyer-belted to every place. More local control of the crops in question, for example, would lead to more diversity- not less.

Contrary to what many cold-war propaganda survivors might think- this is not the face of socialism:

show spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va_IIOKYl6M

[freemonkey]

Originally Posted by godfry n. glad

Cascadia would include.... ....inclusive of much of the northwestern US

Alright! I'm in then. Let's secede already.

I saw that Portland crowd on the news the other day, it was amazing. I was looking for you, godfry.