A Revolution in Thought: Part Two

[peacegirl]

Intermission: I love this song which was the theme of Schindler's List. Thought you might enjoy it.

Itzhak Perlman (Schindler's List) - YouTube

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[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You never let me.

Really? How did I stop you? Was it by asking questions you could not honestly answer?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Not sure. I want to make the break because it's doing me no good.

Why do suppose it is that you find yourself addicted to such destructive behavior?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

What a cop out!! You of all people I'm disappointed in. I don't think you read it. You couldn't have read it and given me answer like that.

And yet I have read it (more than once) and that is my answer. Why do you suppose it is that you are unable to accept that people can read his work without agreeing with it or even being impressed by it?

[Vivisectus]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

You might be right on that count, but I still am going to sell the Mp3 for $11.95. It's worth every penny and I need to make up some of the money I put into this. I live on a very low budget. If I made money I could also build my other business, which is an offshoot of my dad's book. You know, Playing it Safe with Mr. See-More Safety.

I am very sorry that you put your money into this. There is no way this will ever sell, it is just too unconvincing to be serious and it does not strike the right tone for woo. I suggest you try to find some way of increasing your income a little bit, in stead of flogging this dead horse. It has already cost you bucketloads that you could ill afford. Please do not throw more good money after bad. You could have used the 40K that I believe you said you spent on this on useful things to improve your life.

Some father, to saddle you up with his arrogant nonsense. You are letting an pompous fool make your life much harder than it needs to be, even from beyond the grave. What a self-important ass, to do that to his own child without ever thinking of the consequences.

[LadyShea]

Your safety books are much, much more marketable. I would put Lessans book up for free...just make it available to anyone and include an email address to contact you. If they are interested, they will contact you. Otherwise, let it go. Work on your own stuff.

[seebs]

If you really want this discovery widely known:

1. Place it in the public domain.
2. Failing that, grant a few people a worldwide non-exclusive irrevocable license to publish the unaltered text.

Seriously, if you want this made widely available, send me the PDF, give me permission, and I will provide free hosting for it for as long as I have working hosting of any sort.

[Spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I have showed them what happens to the blue-wavelength light, but they're not listening.

That's not true though, is it Peacegirl. People have listened very carefully to your many failed attempts to coherently explain what happens to this light. They have asked you questions about your conceptually confused responses which you have completely failed to answer.

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Chapter One. You are creating a fallacious standard that he has to define "greater satisfaction' in a certain number of words, or he's going to be put on Devil's Island. What you fail to understand is that the entire chapter IS THE DEFINITION.

That's an absurd weasel of a response. A chapter is not a definition. A chapter as a whole may contain an implicit definition, but only if an explicit definition can be extracted and formulated from it. By your own admission, when that is done the resulting definition will be circular. You said Lessans carefully defined his terms. But he didn't.

[naturalist.atheist]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I need capital in order to market this book. People do not appreciate, respect, or take seriously books that are not purchased. That being said, the CD costs very little and I am so happy I have his voice on audio. The only bad part is that I noticed in certain parts it gets a little softer and then louder again. I'm sure that I can get that corrected, but it will take more money. For now, it's good enough and it sounds like he could have done his recording in a studio, when all he had was a tape recorder and the best recording tapes he could find at that time. If you think it's drivel, then don't consider buying it. Eventually, this knowledge is going to spread. How do I know that? Because it's a genuine discovery.

peacegirl, if you think people are reacting badly to the book when it is free just wait and see what they will say after they've paid money for it.

If you make your money from writing books the very last thing in the entire world you should want to do is have your name associated with Lessans flaming pile of shit.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I'm doing that LadyShea, but it takes time to get a website up. I just paid for hosting and I have to contact this guy who said he would help me for very little cost. I will be sending the Mp3 CD of Beyond the Framework of Modern Thought to as many people as I can, along with the book. I believe it will be well received, but it will take people who have the intellectual capacity to understand the principles.

If you weren't wasting so much time on forums like this craving attention you could have it up and running in a few days at most. But you are here peddeling this nonsence to peolpe who can see through the smoke and mirrors to the reality of just what is stated, or not, in the book. The people who will accept this material have an intellictual capacity a lot lower that those on this forum, you are preaching to the wrong choir.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

The only bad part is that I noticed in certain parts it gets a little softer and then louder again. I'm sure that I can get that corrected, but it will take more money.

If you think it's drivel, then don't consider buying it.

Any good recording studio could fix that, in fact my neighbor could do it, but I will not bother him with this kind of nonsense.

It is drivel, and I don't need to buy it I have the PDF on my computer, and that is more than enough.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by LadyShea

[
But if you keep it hidden because you fear "corruption", then you have no chance at all of finding that one person who might agree with it.

I think you are being overly optimistic.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

especially when he urged people not to read the book in the middle. So what did people do? The exact opposite.

If he knew so much about human nature, as you and he claim, how could he have made such a big mistake.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I don't think that's true. I know that there will be people who will criticize this work, but I will not display the book publicly for people to mock. It's over. I thought it was a good idea, but I would never do it again.

Promise? So you are going to chuck it into the dust-bin of history where it belongs?

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

he was rejected for no other reason than he was an unknown.

He was rejected because he was a crackpot with nothing to offer.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I live on a very low budget.

And if you weren't wasting your time on forums like this you could get a real job and have a better budget, your butthurt not ours.

[Angakuk]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Angakuk, I have to answer you because I feel like people are so lost, it makes me upset. When he talked about death as opposed to life, he hadn't even begun his proof. This observation has nothing to do with greater satisfaction. He was only making one observation, and one observation only. That death is the opposite of life. I hope you can answer this question without equivocation because it seems like the most obvious facts will be contested in here, just to deny that anything Lessans says is right. This isn't a trick question, so here goes:

When a person is dead, have you ever seen them move from the spot they're on to another spot? In other words, do they have the ability to move a hairs breath of their own volition? I know that in science fiction movies people come out of their graves or people embody the souls of another. But in this life, have you ever seen an individual come back to life after they died?

I have not personally witnessed it, but I have met people who were described as having died on an operating table and then been restored to life. Whether or not that meets your criteria is another matter.

In any case, the question you are asking me does not address the question I asked you. You claimed that death is a static condition. I have shown you that death is anything but static. Decay and decomposition are quite dynamic processes. Do you disagree with that?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I'm trying to explain why man's will is not free so you will accept it willingly. Only then can we move on.

Seriously? It is not enough for you that someone understands the argument, such as it is, they also have to accept it before the discussion can move forward? Have you any idea of how arrogant, not to mention hopeless, that position is?

Originally Posted by peacegirl

What a cop out!! You of all people I'm disappointed in. I don't think you read it. You couldn't have read it and given me answer like that.

Of course he can. Given that there is nothing of value in that chapter the only honest answer possible is that he got he nothing of value out of it.

[seebs]

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Lessans was right, but a lot of people have a hard time understanding this. Most of them, even.

Which strategy will get the book to someone who can understand it?
1. Hiding it and devoting your promotional efforts to insulting people on a message board?
2. Posting it and letting people circulate it?

You're worried about mockery? Consider that the fandom of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is largely driven by the fact that a lot of people who wanted to make fun of the show went to watch it so they could mock it...

[davidm]

Originally Posted by Angakuk

Death is no more a static state than is life. Have you never heard of the process of decomposition?

Just a note on Lessans' conception of death. Peacegirl does not even understand Lessans' writings here. I understand them perfectly. As I pointed out long ago, they are identical to those of Tom Clark at naturalism.org and to those of Wayne Stewart at Metaphysics by Default. That peacegirl does not recognize that Lessans has at least two allies on this matter testifies yet again to her utter craziness.

The idea is that consciousness is not personal, it is generic. There is no "you" or "I", there is just Consciousness. When "I" die, "my" counscious life comes to a close, but since there really is no "my" or "I", just "generic subjective continuity" (Clark's term) and "existential passage" (Stewart's term), what happens is that "I" begin life again as the next person born. (Stewart's conviction; Clark is not clear on whether the next person born picks up from where "I" left off.)

It is reincarnation without a soul.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Then why are you still here? You can't defend or explain Chapter 1

You never let me.

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Really? How did I stop you? Was it by asking questions you could not honestly answer?

I'm not going to answer in my own words --- which would never do it justice --- until you show me that you read the text.

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

...and you refuse to move on to Chapter 2 or answer my questions on vision (as you said you would). So what are you doing here?

Not sure. I want to make the break because it's doing me no good.

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Why do suppose it is that you find yourself addicted to such destructive behavior?

I'm not addicted; I just was hoping there would be a breakthrough but I am almost certain there won't be.

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

Other than that Lessans never defined "greater satisfaction"? Nothing of any value I'm afraid, though it was quite entertaining.

What a cop out!! You of all people I'm disappointed in. I don't think you read it. You couldn't have read it and given me answer like that.

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

And yet I have read it (more than once) and that is my answer. Why do you suppose it is that you are unable to accept that people can read his work without agreeing with it or even being impressed by it?

Because it's a scientific work and I know you have the capacity to understand it. It's not a tautology Spacemonkey, why can't you get that through your head? I really think there's a collective resistance and that's why I'm getting nowhere.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by seebs

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Lessans was right, but a lot of people have a hard time understanding this. Most of them, even.

Which strategy will get the book to someone who can understand it?
1. Hiding it and devoting your promotional efforts to insulting people on a message board?

You're not getting away with this. Me insulting people? Have you read these threads? You count how many times I've insulted people next to how many times I've been insulted. There's no comparison.

2. Posting it and letting people circulate it?

They can circulate it all they want, but they're going to have to purchase this information, so I can pay for more books and mp3s. I can't promote the book without money Seebs. Eventually, I'll get to the right people.

Originally Posted by Seebs

You're worried about mockery? Consider that the fandom of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is largely driven by the fact that a lot of people who wanted to make fun of the show went to watch it so they could mock it...

Until there are enough people who understand this work, it will be pure mockery, and that's not appealing to me.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by thedoc

If he knew so much about human nature, as you and he claim, how could he have made such a big mistake.

This is the first time in quite awhile that I put someone on ignore, but you're going.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

Because it's a scientific work and I know you have the capacity to understand it. It's not a tautology Spacemonkey, why can't you get that through your head? I really think there's a collective resistance and that's why I'm getting nowhere.

Really?

Because you've repeatedly claimed that Lessans' "knowledge" isn't empirical in nature.

Yet science relies upon empiricism by definition. So if the "knowledge" isn't empirically derived, it isn't "scientific" -- by definition.

Or is "scientific" yet another of those words that you and Lessans have completely redefined?

Me insulting people? Have you read these threads?

Actually, you've been insulting people from the very beginning.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by Spacemonkey

That's not true though, is it Peacegirl. People have listened very carefully to your many failed attempts to coherently explain what happens to this light. They have asked you questions about your conceptually confused responses which you have completely failed to answer.

That's an absurd weasel of a response. A chapter is not a definition. A chapter as a whole may contain an implicit definition, but only if an explicit definition can be extracted and formulated from it. By your own admission, when that is done the resulting definition will be circular. You said Lessans carefully defined his terms. But he didn't.

I guess we're done then Spacemonkey.

[peacegirl]

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

Really?

Because you've repeatedly claimed that Lessans' "knowledge" isn't empirical in nature.

Yet science relies upon empiricism by definition. So if the "knowledge" isn't empirically derived, it isn't "scientific" -- by definition.

Or is "scientific" yet another of those words that you and Lessans have completely redefined?

Actually, you've been insulting people from the very beginning.

I'm not going to put up with this anymore. If there's no one here who is interested these principles, it's time for me to go.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

This is the first time in quite awhile that I put someone on ignore, but you're going.

Promise?

Note to everyone, don't get too close to the truth or she will put you on 'fake ignore' - again.

[thedoc]

Originally Posted by peacegirl

I'm not going to put up with this anymore. If there's no one here who is interested these principles, it's time for me to go.

Promise? or is this just extreme wishful thinking.