Transformers Mafia - Game Thread

[livius drusus]

Interesting to see an 180 style change from day 1 Gonzo to day 2 Gonzo. I like my theory of everything more and more. I'm fine with either Adam or slim dying today, so I'm willing to move my vote if that becomes necessary to drop the hammer.

[Contrapposto]

Originally Posted by livius drusus

Interesting to see an 180 style change from day 1 Gonzo to day 2 Gonzo. I like my theory of everything more and more. I'm fine with either Adam or slim dying today, so I'm willing to move my vote if that becomes necessary to drop the hammer.

That 180 style change is coming from more than just Gonzo, liv.

[livius drusus]

Yeah, Adam's and slim's performance was quite a shift from the day before too.

[Contrapposto]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

You are asking for more than a name! What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

But seriously. If I gave away my name alone, I would give away a surmisable amount of information to the Decepticons as well as to the Autobots.

But is it a rose I'm smelling Gonzo?

Your soft claim to incriminate Kael coupled with your refusal to fully claim leads me to one of two possibilities by my research and both are G1!

a) If your name was either "Punch" or "Counterpunch" I could see why you wouldn't want either side to know. You would be an autobot double agent essentially. Or in plain speak...a 'paranoid cop'. But you mentioned no "affiliation" in your findings on Kael.

Why would it hurt for autobots to know now that you opened your mouth (I think you may have already been blitzed when you claimed a 'role')? If eveyone does have specials like bey suggested then maybe autobots could figure out how to use thier specials as support for each other. But it appears that you don't want them to know.

leading to:

b) Your name is "Devastator"! Decepticon comprised of 5 to 6 decepticons each with a different ability and strength. One of which, "Scrapper"...the 'leader' has an alias...."Gravedigger" who likes the morbid practice of using salvaged parts of enimies in base constructions!

EVERYONE SEEING THE IMPLICATION HERE? We do suspect that a 'collector' exist which would be "Scavenger" (the right arm of the beast). A designer -"Scrapper", a builder -"Hook" (the head and shoulders), an alloys expert "mixmaster", "Bonecrusher" demolition (possibly a kill option), "Longhaul" transporter. Think of it as an 'evil Voltron'.

These are both distinct possibilities however if you could be the one who may have collected the 'CL' (leese) I don't want to risk you being around to find out until after you are dead. If you are the cop then you might have wanted to keep your mouth shut on this...self-examining the 'possibility' that you were paranoid or naive.

I'm about ready to put the Adam, liv, slim, Kael thing on the backburner for this day and gun straight for you....you are scaring me!
unvote

We need some chiming in stat people!

[Crumb]

If Gonzo is scum what was his motivation for claiming like he has? All it does is put a target on him. To me that is a big reason to believe that he at least believes he is telling the truth and we have something more complicated going on here.

[Contrapposto]

Originally Posted by Contrapposto

That 180 style change is coming from more than just Gonzo, liv.

This refering more to Adam and Kael. Can't see much chang in liv or slim..still 'chatty' as usual (yeah...I know...pot calling kettle black...)

[Kael]

Originally Posted by Crumb

If Gonzo is scum what was his motivation for claiming like he has? All it does is put a target on him. To me that is a big reason to believe that he at least believes he is telling the truth and we have something more complicated going on here.

I suppose it's a possibility. Really, though, both Adam and Gonzo's stories seem like remarkably similar situations to me. For either of them to be telling the truth one of two things would have to be true. Either there is some really convoluted order of actions shit going on, or roleblocked investigators get a return of 'no action performed' rather than 'no info' or some similar nul result. For Adam to be telling the truth I would have to have been blocked by such an action. For Gonzo to be telling the truth, he would have to have been blocked. I don't see any logical way for all three of us to be telling the truth, short of the afore-mentioned convoluted order of actions or multiple roleblockers, which I consider equally unlikely especially since in that scenario there's already three investigative roles.

For now, my theory that they're both full of it sits most solidly given the information I have, though Gonzo's reason for lying still isn't clear to me. In reply to Contra, I don't know that I was suggesting Gonzo is a 'jester' role, I'm actually not that familiar with the less common Mafia roles. I just meant what I said, that the most likely reason I can think of for Gonzo to make such a claim, assuming it is false, is that he somehow benefits from the increased confusion and doubt and that making himself a giant 'lynch me' target was either desirable or an acceptable risk. People keep mentioning 'sanity' which I've never dealt with in a Mafia game, but I'm guessing it means the role is required to give false statements or clues? That might explain Gonzo, but I really don't know.

Still, my vote will stay with Adam for now.

[Kael]

To clarify: I mean that Adam's reason for lying seems clear. He is scum, and was trying to pain a target on Crumb (or anyone really) with slimshady's (capitulating or unwitting) assistance. Gonzo's reason for lying, on the other hand, doesn't seem clear at all. That's why my vote is still on Adam.

[Crumb]

An insane cop always reads the opposite of the truth, but since our investigators aren't getting alignment, they are seeing night actions it is not exactly sanity that would be the issue.

And to clarify I don't think all the claimants are telling the truth. That's why I am voting for Adam. I think Gonzo is unlikely to be lying in this case though unless he has some independent win condition.

[Joshua Adams]

Kael:

Insanity refers to cops. When they investigate a player the GM tells them the wrong result. If someone is scum they come up innocent, and vice versa. You can also have Naive (everyone appears innocent) and Paranoid (everyone appears guilty). For balance reasons, a game with multiple investigators might include some or all with unreliable views.

A sanity test would be something like Have Cop A investigate player B, and then lynch B.

[Joshua Adams]

[Contrapposto]

Originally Posted by Crumb

If Gonzo is scum what was his motivation for claiming like he has? All it does is put a target on him. To me that is a big reason to believe that he at least believes he is telling the truth and we have something more complicated going on here.

That was my first inclination as well and may still be. This is why I 'unvoted' and did not place it elsewhere...yet.

I did not like putting that out there but it's not my fault that people started coming out of the woodwork with all of these spectacular claims (or normal claims with untold 'numerous top-secret spectacular claims' that cannot be divulged). This is all just sounding like a poorly written script from a daytime 'soap opera' or something.

In looking at other's claims:

I do have a problem with the fact that I cannot find a direct connection to slim's claim. The 'commuter' comes closest however they cannot hide behind another - utilizing them as a barrier against another's action. They can only leave town for the night thus not being there to receive any action from another. But there could be completely different variation in TFMafia...I won't rule it out. It does mention that a moderator can grant this role immunity to night actions such as 'investigate' and 'role blocking' so it might be there...just not direct.

Looking at things that are more direct:

• Lees's role had a direct connection to a Mafiawiki role
• Adam's supposed claim has a direct connection to a Mafiawiki role. (Tracker)
• Kael's claim could have the direct connection of "Watcher" meaning Kael and Adam could have been intended to be working in tandem with each other if lucky enough to make the connection...assuming they are autobot.

With the exception of lees's role all other's claims are town-friendly roles.
I think it was a possibility that some performed an action and saw something (which could be correct or incorrect depending on 'sanity') or did and saw nothing at all...making false claim.

We have to look at these possibilities since I am well aware that others itt may or may not be aware of different characters in the series.

One possible motivation:

It is still a possibility that he is a 'jester' and if so it would be wise to put him on the backburner for now because he couldn't do anything but try to get himself lynched (not night killed)...that's how he wins if that's what he is.

He should have known that a claim of any type would make everyone suspicious and want to know all.
He may have nothing to claim.

If people didn't want this to happen then they should have simply kept their mouth shut. Having said that, everything that as been said points to these possibilities, among others, and I think it's important to the autobot's very survival to survey every possibility now that this 'can of worms' has been opened.

[Contrapposto]

Originally Posted by Crumb

An insane cop always reads the opposite of the truth, but since our investigators aren't getting alignment, they are seeing night actions it is not exactly sanity that would be the issue.

And to clarify I don't think all the claimants are telling the truth. That's why I am voting for Adam. I think Gonzo is unlikely to be lying in this case though unless he has some independent win condition.

The fact that they aren't getting alignment means that they are not cops! Only investigative town-manipulative roles.

[Contrapposto]

With the exception of lees's role all other's claims are town-friendly roles.
I think it was a possibility that some performed an action and saw something (which could be correct or incorrect depending on 'sanity') or did and saw nothing at all...making false claim.

I'm doing the damn sanity thing too! But actually I will revise it to say that this could have been applied to GONZO except that he did not mention 'alignment'.

[slimshady2357]

Gonzo's claim just seems to be way over the top. At least 3 people now with investigative powers?

This is all a bit ridiculous really.

In my opinion, the most likely scenario is that Adam (and most likely Gonzo) are scum. Adam's claim and the half assed way he came out with it just don't make any sense at all. And there is no way I would have been calling for him to speak up and name the person who supposedly targeted liv if it was me, as ES basically said, I don't have the balls for it.

From my perspective, there isn't too many other scenarios that make any sense at all. And even from an outsider's perspective, the scenarios where he isn't lying are pretty damn convoluted.

If Adam isn't scum I'll gladly walk to the gallows myself.

[Joshua Adams]

Dude, give the Mafiascum wiki a rest. Megatron can make whatever roles he wants, and call them whatever he wants.

[Crumb]

Originally Posted by Contrapposto

The fact that they aren't getting alignment means that they are not cops! Only investigative town-manipulative roles.

Well exactly. So sanity per se doesn't really apply. But Mega could certainly fid other ways to make investigation unreliable.

[livius drusus]

Originally Posted by Joshua Adams

Dude, give the Mafiascum wiki a rest. Megatron can make whatever roles he wants, and call them whatever he wants.

Yeah that. And same goes for the real Transformer characters. There's a lot of flexibility here, and Megs warned us in the OP that the game is fucked up. He could have distributed dummy roles and insane ones up and down the field. He also warned against mass role claims, so I wouldn't be surprised if he sowed confusion in the PMs.

[Kael]

If he did put more than one investigative role in I think he would certainly provide ways to make it significantly less than 100% certain.

[Kael]

In any case, I think we've about reached the limit of speculation for information available. Let's get someone suspicious lynched and see what happens next.

Though part of me wonders if we won't just have more questions tomorrow...

[Gonzo]

Interesting to see an 180 style change from day 1 Gonzo to day 2 Gonzo.

Style change? In what fashion, liv. Could you at all explain this to me? Any change I have made in my game style is obviously a reaction to the circumstances of the game and for the town's/ my own protection. Did you want more clown pictures or something? I have never played past Day 1, which I consider the day of bullshitting. Now it's Day 2 and the series of events has caused me to give out more information than I had ever wished to. I really didn't have to either, but it looked to me that it was necessary to tell the full story. I still don't think that has happened, either. I think a Decepticon block role of some sort is keeping to themselves about a night action. I don't trust anyone right now. It is obvious from my point of view that we are keeping kept in the dark and that this situation is perfect for manipulation by scum not on the chopping block.

I like my theory of everything more and more. I'm fine with either Adam or slim dying today, so I'm willing to move my vote if that becomes necessary to drop the hammer.

That 180 style change is coming from more than just Gonzo, liv.

I'm glad that you are so certain. I you wish to rush to lynching one of us over this half-baked story, go ahead, but I'm pushing to talk this out. If any town has made a night action last night that may have been a factor in this situation, now is the time to SPEAK THE FUCK UP. If no one else speaks up, all my suspicion is on Kael for his farce. But why on Earth would HE falsify a claim like that? What is the point? Unless he were trying to heap more heat on adam. I do not wish to jump to any conclusions here, there seems to have been SEVERAL night actions going on at once, and in some fashion that gave us a convoluted series of events. One thing is for sure, liv, your style hasn't changed. You are still 100% certain all the time.

Let's get someone suspicious lynched and see what happens next.

I think it is extremely unfair to already be pushing for a lynch, why are you in such a hurry? Part of me feels you know more about the situation than you are sharing with us.

[Deadlokd]

Originally Posted by Megatron

Vote Count - Mod is going to D&D for the next 4 hours Edition:

1. Deadlokd
2. Adam -4 (Kael, slimshady, livius drusus, Crumb)
3. Contrapposto
4. Kael -1 (Gonzo)
5. livius drusus
6. Joshua Adams -1 (Contrapposto)
7. Gonzo
8. slimshady -3 (Adam, beyelzu, Joshua Adams)
9. Ensign Steve
10. beyelzu
11. Crumb

Not Voting: Deadlokd, Ensign Steve

6 to lynch.

Since this count ES has voted for slim and Contra has unvoted so I make the new count as:

1. Deadlokd
2. Adam -4 (Kael, slimshady, livius drusus, Crumb)
3. Contrapposto
4. Kael -1 (Gonzo)
5. livius drusus
6. Joshua Adams
7. Gonzo
8. slimshady -3 (Adam, beyelzu, Joshua Adams, Ensign Steve)
9. Ensign Steve
10. beyelzu
11. Crumb

Not Voting: Deadlokd, Contrapposto

I just want to bring this post back and throw in the Gonzo scenarios.

Originally Posted by Deadlokd

Hi guys, anything happen overnight?

unvote.

Interesting. Possibilities.

1. Adam is telling the truth, he was spying on truth telling slim who was hiding behind Crumb and he saw Crumb take a shot at liv.

2. Adam is telling the truth, he was spying on lying slim and he saw slim take a shot at liv.

3. Adam is lying, he took a shot at liv and missed and wanted to know why.

4. Adam is lying, slim is lying and they set it up to frame Crumb.

5. Kael is telling the truth and viewed truth-telling slim who was hiding behind Crumb and saw nothing.

6. Kael is telling the truth and viewed lying slim who did nothing. (like, wtf?)

7. Kael is lying to set Adam up.

I'm just going to post this now and read it.
2. Kael is telling the truth, he spied on slim who was hiding behind Crumb and he saw nothing.

8. Gonzo is telling the truth and 7. comes to the fore and it is a plan of Kael's to frame Adam.

9. Gonzo is lying to save Adam. He is also scum and is trying to throw himself in front of the lynch mob of the scum leader?

So...slimshady hides behind Crumb. He is observed by Adam taking a shot at liv. He is also observed by Kael doing nothing. Kael is observed doing nothing by Gonzo. This all comes back to Adam.

Option 1. Adam is town, he saw slim/Crumb take a shot at liv (I'm leaving slim's claim out of it for the moment). Kael, trying to save slim/Crumb, claims Adam is a liar. Gonzo, also Town and a real investigator/watcher was watching Kael and knows that he didn't move all night.

Option 2. Adam is scum and tried to set up slim/Crumb as a shooter. Kael, as a town investigator was watching slim due to the suspicion on him the previous day, and saw him do nothing. Gonzo, as scum, trying to back up Adam, says that Kael is a liar.

So we have two teams, Adam and Gonzo, slim and Kael.

Fucked if I know who to vote for.

[slimshady2357]

There are 4 people voting for me, not 3.

[Deadlokd]

Who is the shooter? Adam, slim or Crumb?

[Deadlokd]

Originally Posted by slimshady2357

There are 4 people voting for me, not 3.

Right, sorry, forgot to fix that.

1. Deadlokd
2. Adam -4 (Kael, slimshady, livius drusus, Crumb)
3. Contrapposto
4. Kael -1 (Gonzo)
5. livius drusus
6. Joshua Adams
7. Gonzo
8. slimshady -4 (Adam, beyelzu, Joshua Adams, Ensign Steve)
9. Ensign Steve
10. beyelzu
11. Crumb

Not Voting: Deadlokd, Contrapposto