Are you a vegetarian and/or vegan? Might you ever be?

[Sophia]

The difference between a vegan and a vegetarian is that vegans eliminate all animal products from their diet, including dairy and eggs. Those following a vegan lifestyle generally do not wear leather and avoid products made from animals such as wool, silk and down. Vegans' tremendous compassion for animals is an abiding, overriding conviction in their lives.

Vegetarians do not eat meat, fish or poultry but they tend to consume dairy products and eggs. Lacto-vegetarians consume dairy products but not eggs, ovo-vegetarians eat eggs but not dairy products and lacto-ovo-vegetarians eat eggs as well as dairy products. Vegetarians also do not eat products that contain gelatine or other meat-based products.

The vegan point of view is that animals are not here to be exploited by man, and that commercialization of animals necessarily involves a fundamental, inhumane component and lack of respect for basic life.

From a nutrition point of view, the only difference is that vegans need to take a B12 and amino acid supplement, since they have no dietary source of these nutrients. You can get all the nutrients you need on a lacto-ovo (eggs and milk) vegetarian diet without supplements.

Read more: Vegan vs Vegetarian - Difference and Comparison | Diffen Vegan vs Vegetarian - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

These guys are making it much easier for a (currently) geographically isolated hickgirl/dickgirl like me to go vegan:

YouTube - The VeggieBrothers.com Experience

[erimir]

I think there are good critiques of the way animal products are produced in this country, but I like meat too much to cut it out of my diet, and also I think it's healthier to eat animal products/maintaining a healthy vegan/vegetarian diet that I also enjoyed would be too difficult.

Also I don't happen to share the belief that eating meat is inherently wrong.

But we already have a long thread about the ethics of eating meat, so you might want to check that out if you want to have a discussion about that, aside from merely who is or isn't vegetarian: The Ethics of Killing Animals

[Fencesitter]

By your definitions (which are not very standard), I'm not a vegetarian or a vegan, but I don't eat meat, fish, poultry, dairy or eggs.

I don't have an abiding, overriding compassion for animals, so that takes me out of the vegan category. I just don't like eating them. I also don't eat dairy and eggs for the most part because I don't like eating them either.

I also eat gelatin sometimes so that takes me out of the vegetarian category.

Since I'm not doing it for ethical reasons, I'm also not that strict about it. But eating any of those things in more than just a small amount would probably have me feeling physically poorly. My body is acclimated to a diet similar to most vegans.

[erimir]

Do you/can you eat things which aren't primarily eggs or dairy? Like, say, cake?

[Sophia]

Before my recent craniotomy I mostly didn't care that animals had to suffer and die in order for me to eat meat. I even liked to see people as meat. I was very sick. Since my craniotomy with the concomitant restoration of my conscience and other higher brain functions, I've been worried about the moral implications of meat-eating. e.g. Sometimes I'll so much as say look at a slice of bacon and then start getting sick at the thought of pigs crammed into a pen and suffering just so I could have that bit of pleasure.

OTOH I'm more conflicted on some of the other uses of animals. So far I'm not with Singer or PETA on blanket opposition to animal experimentation or use of animal specimens for educational and/or medical purposes. The results are extremely useful. I do agree that we should take reasonable steps to avoid unnecessary suffering as much as possible. I don't agree with Bill Maher (PETA member) here: "To those people who say, 'My father is alive because of animal experimentation,' I say, 'Yeah, well, good for you. This dog died so your father could live.' Sorry, but I am just not behind that kind of trade-off." I'm pretty much behind that kind of trade-off, provided that we avoid superfluous suffering for the animal.

Singer argues that our relatively high intelligence gives us a special responsibility. I can see this point of view, but I don't see how the responsibility must extend beyond avoiding unnecessary suffering for the animals, taking care not to cause endangerment and extinction, etc. The misanthropy and comparison of pet ownership to slavery coming from many animal rights types strikes me as batshit crazy. Should torturing a cat be illegal? Yes, and lock the criminally ill person away. Should owning a cat be illegal? No. Some examples of why I think animal rights activists can go too far:

The life of an ant and the life of my child should be accorded equal respect."
~ Michael Fox, Humane Society of the United States

"Even if animal research produced a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it."
~ Ingrid Newkirk, September 2001

"The cat, like the dog, must disappear... We should cut the domestic cat free from our dominance by neutering, neutering, and more neutering, until our pathetic version of the cat ceases to exist."
~ John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An Examination of a Changing Ethic, Washington, D.C., PeTA, 1982

That's actually some sick shit. What kind of parent would say what Fox said? At least without a brain tumor or something equally pathological scrambling his/her judgment? And Ingrid? I hope every gay member of PETA has seen that bullshit. Regarding Bryant, well that's ahistorical crap. From everything I've read, cats wanted to be "enslaved." They gradually moved into human homes and farms and the like and the two species developed a symbiotic relationship of sorts. Calling this slavery is ridiculous and mocks the real slavery endured by millions of black people over centuries, for example.

How about we be kinder to animals and be more careful about avoiding extinctions without slipping into batshit crazy hatred for humanity? Is that too much to ask, people?

I'm not interested in hunting (since the cranio) and won't engage in it myself but this issue is not as clear cut as some make it out to be. I have family members who hunt and they're not monsters. It's part of the rural culture they grew up in. Should we ban native Americans from hunting and fishing and making many of their traditional tribal items from animal products? Fuck that. Some traditions are definitely shit, such as FGM or widow burning. I really can't say these native traditions which make use of animals fall into that "definitely shit" category.

[Deadlokd]

The difference between a vegan and a vegetarian is that vegans eliminate all animal products from their diet, including dairy and eggs.

Awfully restricted poll.

[Kyuss Apollo]

where's Poland?

[Sophia]

Funny how someone can take the time to view the thread and even post without voting in the fucking poll. Very anti-democratic. I'm tempted to even say proto-fascist!

[Qingdai]

Then you should construct more open ended polls, fascist.

[Sophia]

*shrug* Oh well, there's no time limit on the poll, so it's not like there's any rush or anything!

[Kyuss Apollo]

Originally Posted by Sophia

Funny how someone can take the time to view the thread and even post without voting in the fucking poll. Very anti-democratic. I'm tempted to even say proto-fascist!

Funny how someone can fucking comment on a post in thread yet NOT ANSWER A SIMPLE DIRECT QUESTION


FOR THE HITLER

[Fencesitter]

under the fire of the debate

Originally Posted by erimir

Do you/can you eat things which aren't primarily eggs or dairy? Like, say, cake?

The short answer is technically yes, which is one of the reasons that I say I'm not that strict about a vegan diet. But I also limit my sugar intake for other reasons. A small piece of cake hits my sugar tolerance level before I have any problems with the eggs/dairy in it.

I've been looking for a vegan quick bread that has fruit sugar in it, just so I can eat more of it. I've been unsuccessful in finding anything commercially made.

I can't eat more than a couple small bites of things like custard pie or cheesecake.

I've been eating soy yogurt and want to add yogurt back into my diet, but I'm a little hesitant. I'm thinking it might work if I did it slowly, but I'm not sure.

I can also eat vegetables cooked in chicken broth but lately the smell can overwhelm me.

It doesn't bother me when other people are eating whatever they eat, though.

[erimir]

What about butter?

[Demimonde]

We have a stellar vegan diner and bakery in our neighborhood. They have some of the best sweets, no joke their double fudge brownies are the best I've ever had. Their recipes aren't online, and their rumoured cookbook had never materialized BUT I just found out they have a cooking class coming up in February. $40 bucks but that recipe alone would be worth that. I might get that as a birthday treat, and would be happy to share some of the recipes.

[Deadlokd]

Originally Posted by Sophia

Funny how someone can take the time to view the thread and even post without voting in the fucking poll. Very anti-democratic. I'm tempted to even say proto-fascist!

fyi your poll sucks.

[Fencesitter]

Originally Posted by erimir

What about butter?

I can't think of anything off-hand where the concentration of butter would hit the level where it would bother me, except for one thing. Pot pies. Pot pies that don't have cream often have butter substituted. I can't eat those.

I generally use margarine (I can't believe it's not butter) for things like toast or bread. It still has dairy but not enough to bother me. I tried the soy margarine (which is just mainly oil) and didn't like it very much.

[Sophia]

Thanks for the votes gals and guys. I've run into stereotypes of atheists on right wing boards as being a bunch of vegetarians. Stereotypes are often bullshit based on wishful thinking... maybe in this case is the wish to make us as "alien" as possible. Well, this particular stereotype is true for me, but I've already a hunch it's true for most FFers only slightly or somewhat more than the general population. Not so dramatically.

One factor is probably that bright internet using atheists are more likely than average to be college kids pursuing or have already attained advanced formal educations in fields relevant to evolutionary biology, and therefore quite accustomed and comfortable with animal experimentation for scientific purposes, etc., etc. Such folks are hardly apt to be squeamish about eating meat.

I'm not inherently opposed to eating meat and not hugely squeamish about it all the time. Come to think of it I probably am more interested in vegetarianism from the angle of being able to keep better control of my weight/figure. Also I've noticed meat often gets really nasty during digestion.

[ShottleBop]

If you're interested in the sociopolitical aspects of vegetarianism/veganism, check out Lierre Keith's book, The Vegetarian Myth.

Denise Minger's blog, Raw Food SOS, is also worth looking at.

Personally, I control my blood sugar by means of a very low-carb diet. I don't gorge myself on meat, but I do eat it on a daily basis.

[Sophia]

Originally Posted by Kyuss Apollo

Funny how someone can fucking comment on a post in thread yet NOT ANSWER A SIMPLE DIRECT QUESTION


FOR THE HITLER

I was joking.

[Sophia]

Originally Posted by erimir

What about butter?

Vegans have to swear off butter as it is an animal byproduct. Semi-vegetarians, or "vegetarian cause we don't like to eat any form of life that has a brain," or "as vegetarian as we wanna be," don't necessarily have a problem grabbing a stick of butter.

[Sophia]

Originally Posted by Deadlokd

fyi your poll sucks.

While you're here why don't you explain how my posts in this thread are meaningless. They convey substantive meaning. I can actually prove this by posting them to a vegetarian board somewhere, and then showing that the replies are inconsistent with your claim that my posts are meaningless. Answer here.

You may as well take back your claim now.

[Sophia]

Originally Posted by Qingdai

Then you should construct more open ended polls, fascist.

Antivitametavegamitic Nazism is no option for free people! No platform!

YouTube - I love Lucy Vitameatavegamin

[Sophia]

Originally Posted by Demimonde

We have a stellar vegan diner and bakery in our neighborhood. They have some of the best sweets, no joke their double fudge brownies are the best I've ever had. Their recipes aren't online, and their rumoured cookbook had never materialized BUT I just found out they have a cooking class coming up in February. $40 bucks but that recipe alone would be worth that. I might get that as a birthday treat, and would be happy to share some of the recipes.

That's awesome.

Now I've yet another reason for these viral treatments to work!

[Kyuss Apollo]

Originally Posted by Sophia

I was joking.

I'm not.

[Sophia]

Originally Posted by Kyuss Apollo

I'm not.

Is there a question still in need of an answer? If so, please point it out to me.